Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

[Bikeman78]

20%?

And how many busy 8 cars will become 5 (6)?

Well that's an interesting question. Currently the vast majority of West Anglia trains are eight cars. Exceptions are the 1907 to King's Lynn which is four car and the 1707/1737/1807 towards Cambridge which were 12 cars until the class 379 coupling fault. Will all the existing eight cars become 10 car 720s in the peaks?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Not sure where you have got those numbers from! There are 127 Class 450s, of which 28 (450043-070) became Class 450/5.

Oops - didn't notice the listing I was consulting had two columns. Yes, 127 and 28, so 450/0 only had more than 100 members during the conversion programme.

 

[MatthewRead]

Still no word on entry into passenger service?

 

[Shunter_69]

Must be imminent as Southend/Ilford drivers were told this week that 720’s will be self despatch from all stations apart from Liverpool Street.

 

[Railperf]

Look out for 5/10 car formation changes on journey check for Southend services then i guess and no first class!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Look out for 5/10 car formation changes on journey check for Southend services then i guess and no first class!!

2+2 in the end sections by the cabs though, I'd imagine that bit will be popular!

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Look out for 5/10 car formation changes on journey check for Southend services then i guess and no first class!!

I thought GA was going to declassify all 321/360 when the 720's were going to introduced. They also are stopping selling first class seasons except from 745/0 served stations. Mind you, with all the season cancellations earlier this year, I think that's moot now anyway. Not to mention how few 745/0 diagrams actually are in service.

 

[Railperf]

I thought GA was going to declassify all 321/360 when the 720's were going to introduced. They also are stopping selling first class seasons except from 745/0 served stations. Mind you, with all the season cancellations earlier this year, I think that's moot now anyway. Not to mention how few 745/0 diagrams actually are in service.

I thought so too, but stepping into a Class 379 on a local Meridian Water to Stratford service, a GA inspector sitting a few rows away got out of his seat to check if I had a first class ticket. So they are enforcing this still!

 

[delticdave]

I agree it makes more sense to have them all as fives, other than on intensive suburban workings and some exceptions like Thameslink longer fixed formation units can be difficult to accomodate on the existing network. Having to split the 10 cars to fit in Ilford depot for maintenance was always going to cause problems and the routes where 10 cars working all day was going to be limited. And the cost saving of fewer cabs needs to be offset againt the cost of extending (some) platforms and sidings designed for multiples of 4 x 20m and rebuilding of places like Hertford East, Wickford down side.

There's no doubt that the 720 fleet procured for a world of ever increasing peak demand, (that may have gone forever in a post COVID world), may in hindsight look to now not be the best layout for growing the business in the off peak and weekends, where lower seating densities, tables, more luggage room etc...may be more desirable? Time will tell and 35-40 years is a long time in the life of a train.

Wickford downside will still require some work to extend the down bay so that the Southminster branch train can still run.
(A 5-car 720 is too long for the existing bays, both up & down sides.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's no doubt that the 720 fleet procured for a world of ever increasing peak demand, (that may have gone forever in a post COVID world), may in hindsight look to now not be the best layout for growing the business in the off peak and weekends, where lower seating densities, tables, more luggage room etc...may be more desirable? Time will tell and 35-40 years is a long time in the life of a train.

To be fair, a mid-life refurb to 2+2 seating with tables wouldn't exactly break the bank.

 

[Shunter_69]

Wickford downside will still require some work to extend the down bay so that the Southminster branch train can still run.
(A 5-car 720 is too long for the existing bays, both up & down sides.)

Planning permission has been sought to rebuild the downside at Wickford.

 

[delticdave]

Planning permission has been sought to rebuild the downside at Wickford.

True, but has Basildon District Council granted said permission, & if so when will the work be completed?

Maybe some of the Renatus 321's will have to be kept in service for a few more years?

 

[Gulf1159]

True, but has Basildon District Council granted said permission, & if so when will the work be completed?

Maybe some of the Renatus 321's will have to be kept in service for a few more years?

Permission has been granted

20/00528/LDCP | Demolition of station building using mechanical plant and machinery and hand tools where necessary. | Wickford Railway Station Stat

planning.basildon.gov.uk

 

[Bringback309s]

Permission granted to demolish the old but no plans for a new station. Maybe a bus shelter with a ticket machine?

 

[Gulf1159]

Plans are due to be submitted in due course. When ever that might be!!

 

[ashkeba]

A pair of these units will have 8 spaces, right? Sounds like plenty.

They serve Cambridge so sounds like not enough. 8 is a huge step down from 2 per vestibule. (Off-peak. And I am OK with that there because it is a short peak window and there was not enough space for people standing on some services before COVID.)

 

[Geogregor]

Interesting:

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/ga-swaps-ten-car-720/1s-for-more-five-car-720/5s

Greater Anglia has cancelled an order for 22 ten-car Class 720/1s.

The electric multiple units were meant to be in traffic by now, but Bombardier has yet to release any from Derby Litchurch Lane. Instead, GA will now receive an additional 44 five-car Class 720/5s, giving it a fleet of 133 EMUs from Bombardier.

A Greater Anglia spokesman told RAIL: "We are in the process of amending our order for Class 720 trains from Bombardier from 22 ten-carriage and 89 five-carriage trains to 133 five carriage trains, which gives us the same number of carriages overall – a total of 665.

 

[20atthemagnet]

Interesting:

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/ga-swaps-ten-car-720/1s-for-more-five-car-720/5s

It makes sense. The amount of seats lost running with a 10 car vs 5X2 is negligible vs the benefits and flexibility.

Fleet can be utilized easily and chopped and changed, allows more flexibility for storage (Space at Ilford is at a premium at the moment) failures can be uncoupled etc etc. Most sense I've seen out of the region for a while.

A 5/10/12 car railway makes things quite awkward especially on the west. East is fine. Would have been different if everywhere had 12 car platforms. At Liv St LO 710s have grown grown in length meaning its 8 car only on most platforms, 12 car Stadler's, and then 5 or 10 car 720s. SDO at Sisters/White Hart Line....If anything goes wrong and platforms start to get filled you're looking at 7-8 platforms filled with only one train. Could stack 4x4x4 for days prior.

 

[Chiltern006]

Any idea where the tests are running today? Cheers

 

[Peter Mugridge]

720 517 is at Ilford depot right now; looks like 37 601 delivered it.

 

[Chiltern006]

thanks!

 

[James321]

When class 720 start enter in service to Clacton?

 

[Alfie1014]

Report on another forum that 720519 which has been recently delivered to Ilford via Wolverton and has had a refitted interior? Any idea if this is correct and what any changes are? Removal of tip up seats in vestibule perhaps?

 

[Aaron Hayward7]

When class 720 start enter in service to Clacton?

Next year sometime I believe

 

[Grumbler]

Report on another forum that 720519 which has been recently delivered to Ilford via Wolverton and has had a refitted interior? Any idea if this is correct and what any changes are? Removal of tip up seats in vestibule perhaps?

Why does it such a big deal to reconfigure train seating? Airlines reconfigure planes quite regularly in a few hours.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why does it such a big deal to reconfigure train seating? Airlines reconfigure planes quite regularly in a few hours.

Aircraft are designed for that. Most trains are not.

 

[py_megapixel]

Why does it such a big deal to reconfigure train seating? Airlines reconfigure planes quite regularly in a few hours.

Aircraft are designed for that. Most trains are not.

Indeed. I'm sure it would be possible for such a system to be designed for trains - however, at a rough guess, it's simply that airlines consider that flexibility to be important to their operations but TOCs don't, and so TOCs have decided - probably correctly - that investing in the R&D, the equipment itself, and any applicable depot facilities and staff training required to facilitate it would work out more expensive than just sending them back when the seats need changing.

 

[robert west]

5q54 running today but currently at a stand between gideapark and harold wood

on move 15 mins late

5q54 was 720511 colchester end with 517 at liv st end

 

[Railperf]

Any sign of 720's being ready to appear on Southend services this month yet?

 

[robert west]

720515 and 536 on Liverpool st to ipswich tests yesterday