Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

[800301]

Sorry if it’s been asked before,

Are there any differences in seating layout with the 720’s ?

Are there any differences between a 720/1 and a 720/5?

 

[RailWonderer]

Sorry if it’s been asked before,

Are there any differences in seating layout with the 720’s ?

Are there any differences between a 720/1 and a 720/5?

None, they're exactly the same. The /1s were meant to be 22 10 coach units but the order was changed to 44 5 car units, identical to the /5s. This was due to short platforms at some stations, operational convenience and not needing the extra length due to less commuting.

 

[The_Train]

It left the factory in August 22 but it may have been there some time since it came off the production line.

That's good enough for me, thanks

 

[GeoffS]

It left the factory in August 22 but it may have been there some time since it came off the production line.

That seems rather out of sequence, doesn't it? It wasn't 720110 that was observed, was it?

 

[Wivenswold]

I've no reason to disbelieve that observation, 109 was delivered in September 2022, 103 in January 2023, so the sequence is well broken.
Besides, with production lines things do fall out of sequence, it takes one quality control issue. Likewise fault-free testing can mess things up, 516 appears to have been particularly prone leaving the factory in July 20 finally arriving at Ilford in November 21 and was last seen being dragged back to Alstom in June 22.

 

[800301]

None, they're exactly the same. The /1s were meant to be 22 10 coach units but the order was changed to 44 5 car units, identical to the /5s. This was due to short platforms at some stations, operational convenience and not needing the extra length due to less commuting.

Cheers, I thought that was the case

 

[GeoffS]

I've no reason to disbelieve that observation, 109 was delivered in September 2022, 103 in January 2023, so the sequence is well broken.
Besides, with production lines things do fall out of sequence, it takes one quality control issue. Likewise fault-free testing can mess things up, 516 appears to have been particularly prone leaving the factory in July 20 finally arriving at Ilford in November 21 and was last seen being dragged back to Alstom in June 22.

Indeed, the 720/5s haven't arrived in sequence at all. However, apart from 720101-04, the 720/1s have largely done so, soon after construction has been completed, I imagine. I have not seen any evidence, either in magazines or online, to suggest that 120 has even left Derby yet, certainly not as long ago as August '22 as has been suggested. 720110, on the other hand, entered service in September '22.

 

[60159]

120 is reported as in service in post 2276 as also in new units in service in 2023 post 1.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I've no reason to disbelieve that observation, 109 was delivered in September 2022, 103 in January 2023, so the sequence is well broken.
Besides, with production lines things do fall out of sequence, it takes one quality control issue. Likewise fault-free testing can mess things up, 516 appears to have been particularly prone leaving the factory in July 20 finally arriving at Ilford in November 21 and was last seen being dragged back to Alstom in June 22.

This may be total coincidence but I often often found that new traction is rarely delivered in number order and #3 or #4 of the series is often delivered into traffic in advance of the others

Another thing is the fact that these were supposed to be built as 10 car sets but IIRC there was going to be a logistical problem with maintenance at Ilford. The company therefore altered the order to five car units and depending on how far down the line construction had got, required twice the number of cab end cars compared to the conventional ended cars.

 

[GeoffS]

120 is reported as in service in post 2276 as also in new units in service in 2023 post 1.

Yes, I saw post 2276 which is what led me to comment in post 2284 and then 2287. Whatever the delivery sequence aren't units actually built in or close to order? If it really left the factory in August 2022, as per post 2280, why has that not featured anywhere until last Saturday?
What is 'new units in service 2023 post 1' please?

 

[60159]

Yes, I saw post 2276 which is what led me to comment in post 2284 and then 2287. Whatever the delivery sequence aren't units actually built in or close to order? If it really left the factory in August 2022, as per post 2280, why has that not featured anywhere until last Saturday?
What is 'new units in service 2023 post 1' please?

If you look at yesterday at 19.30 you’ll see the thread and tho’ there are 11 replies post 1 gets updated with new trains in service. Excellent site in my opinion.

 

[GeoffS]

If you look at yesterday at 19.30 you’ll see the thread and tho’ there are 11 replies post 1 gets updated with new trains in service. Excellent site in my opinion.

Thanks for the reference. Have looked on that site and seen what is there. I couldn't help noticing however that other units in service before 120 have not yet been recorded as such, so will still, for the time being, be looking out for other info elsewhere (or even my own sighting, as and when I get the chance!).

 

[MDB1images]

Been reported that 720541 is in service, has anyone the date it went in service and what services it first worked?

 

[GeoffS]

If you look at yesterday at 19.30 you’ll see the thread and tho’ there are 11 replies post 1 gets updated with new trains in service. Excellent site in my opinion.

Am pleased to be able to confirm that 720120 entered service by 24 January (ref the latest issue of Today's Railways UK), so removing all the doubt that I had raised. Unusually however, its move from Derby to Wembley on January 5 was not recorded in any of the usual places that I've found normally do so: I did also find photos of it online on WCML test runs on Jan 10 and 12.
From my own observations on Tues 31 Jan, (when I didn't actually see 120(!) or 118 in service), I can confirm that both 541 and 103 were newly in service. According to other info I've acquired, units currently testing on the WCML are 117, 119, 508 and 544 (as well as several of c2c's), with 583, as previously posted by others here, based at Ilford (or perhaps in service but unseen).

 

[MDB1images]

Am pleased to be able to confirm that 720120 entered service by 24 January (ref the latest issue of Today's Railways UK), so removing all the doubt that I had raised. Unusually however, its move from Derby to Wembley on January 5 was not recorded in any of the usual places that I've found normally do so: I did also find photos of it online on WCML test runs on Jan 10 and 12.
From my own observations on Tues 31 Jan, (when I didn't actually see 120(!) or 118 in service), I can confirm that both 541 and 103 were newly in service. According to other info I've acquired, units currently testing on the WCML are 117, 119, 508 and 544 (as well as several of c2c's), with 583, as previously posted by others here, based at Ilford (or perhaps in service but unseen).

720121 is also on Test on WCML, was out 03/02 Wembley to Rugby(via Stafford).

 

[Wivenswold]

I have "Dec 22 - date unknown" for 583 unfortunately, maybe someone else knows the exact date.
541 I have as originally being delivered to Ilford on 20 Dec 2020, entering service the next day. Has it been away for 2 years or have I spotted a typo in my records?

Is it worth me writing to GA and asking for a list of delivery dates/entry into service dates? If anyone knows a good person to contact I'd appreciate it. Don't ask, don't get is my motto!

 

[GeoffS]

I have "Dec 22 - date unknown" for 583 unfortunately, maybe someone else knows the exact date.
541 I have as originally being delivered to Ilford on 20 Dec 2020, entering service the next day. Has it been away for 2 years or have I spotted a typo in my records?

Is it worth me writing to GA and asking for a list of delivery dates/entry into service dates? If anyone knows a good person to contact I'd appreciate it. Don't ask, don't get is my motto!

540?

 

[Wivenswold]

540?

Yeah, I think you're right there.

 

[Domk]

My observations having used 720s for sometime since their introduction on WA.

Pros - Very fast acceleration and quiet and good suspension.

Cons - too many seats 3+2 is just madness

I noticed that the 720/1s have the gangway 3+2 layout by the doors as 2+2 initially but then continues as 3+2, whereas the 720/5s have 3+2 from the door entrance.

The introduction of 10cars seems pointless as so many platforms are you short.

As an example, you get on at Tottenham Hale on a 5 car at the rear for Ponders End which is a popular journey. Do the same on a 10 car you have navigate 3 cars of 3+2 seating to get there. Each coach does say move down x coaches to get to the right one.

I tweeted GA who said they have no plans to extend the others. Disappointing .

 

[robert west]

My observations having used 720s for sometime since their introduction on WA.

Pros - Very fast acceleration and quiet and good suspension.

Cons - too many seats 3+2 is just madness

I noticed that the 720/1s have the gangway 3+2 layout by the doors as 2+2 initially but then continues as 3+2, whereas the 720/5s have 3+2 from the door entrance.

The introduction of 10cars seems pointless as so many platforms are you short.

As an example, you get on at Tottenham Hale on a 5 car at the rear for Ponders End which is a popular journey. Do the same on a 10 car you have navigate 3 cars of 3+2 seating to get there. Each coach does say move down x coaches to get to the right one.

I tweeted GA who said they have no plans to extend the others. Disappointing .

720117 in use today leading the 1548 liverpool street to braintree

 

[warwickshire]

720119 straight into service only after Abeillo Anglia expected it for use on Monday 13th February 2023.
Observed on Thursday 16th February at Chelmsford at 0750. On the 1F17 Witham to London Liverpool Street.
720119 with 720106.

 

[gdj]

I have "Dec 22 - date unknown" for 583 unfortunately, maybe someone else knows the exact date.
541 I have as originally being delivered to Ilford on 20 Dec 2020, entering service the next day. Has it been away for 2 years or have I spotted a typo in my records?

Is it worth me writing to GA and asking for a list of delivery dates/entry into service dates? If anyone knows a good person to contact I'd appreciate it. Don't ask, don't get is my motto!

Unit number	Bought by GA date
720119	14/02/23
720544	07/02/23
720508	01/02/23
720117	31/01/23
720103	26/01/23
720120	19/01/23
720118	23/12/22
720541	23/12/22
720116	20/12/22
720114	09/12/22
720513	25/11/22
720507	18/11/22
720115	04/11/22
720113	28/10/22
720112	21/10/22
720109	07/10/22
720111	30/09/22
720582	24/09/22
720110	31/08/22
720512	31/08/22
720107	29/07/22
720533	29/07/22
720108	22/07/22
720501	22/07/22
720506	13/07/22
720106	22/06/22
720520	21/06/22
720514	14/06/22
720523	01/06/22
720555	01/06/22
720526	27/05/22
720528	20/05/22
720105	06/05/22
720524	03/05/22
720589	30/03/22
720588	28/03/22
720529	17/03/22
720587	15/03/22
720527	14/03/22
720585	08/03/22
720572	25/02/22
720579	25/02/22
720586	25/02/22
720525	22/02/22
720584	18/02/22
720532	11/02/22
720530	03/02/22
720576	26/01/22
720531	20/01/22
720575	20/01/22
720567	07/01/22
720578	22/12/21
720581	17/12/21
720521	14/12/21
720535	03/12/21
720565	29/11/21
720577	12/11/21
720580	12/11/21
720570	01/11/21
720574	01/11/21
720569	22/10/21
720573	22/10/21
720546	01/10/21
720571	29/09/21
720554	24/09/21
720545	22/09/21
720559	03/09/21
720560	03/09/21
720566	03/09/21
720568	03/09/21
720557	10/08/21
720563	10/08/21
720549	05/08/21
720551	05/08/21
720561	26/04/21
720542	06/04/21
720547	31/03/21
720522	19/03/21
720562	19/03/21
720553	10/03/21
720564	10/03/21
720552	17/02/21
720558	17/02/21
720550	23/12/20
720556	23/12/20
720543	17/12/20
720548	17/12/20
720539	11/12/20
720540	11/12/20
720511	21/08/20
720515	21/08/20
720517	21/08/20
720536	21/08/20
720537	21/08/20
720538	21/08/20

 

[Wivenswold]

Unit number	Bought by GA date
720119	14/02/23
720544	07/02/23
720508	01/02/23
720117	31/01/23
720103	26/01/23
720120	19/01/23
720118	23/12/22
720541	23/12/22
720116	20/12/22
720114	09/12/22
720513	25/11/22
720507	18/11/22
720115	04/11/22
720113	28/10/22
720112	21/10/22
720109	07/10/22
720111	30/09/22
720582	24/09/22
720110	31/08/22
720512	31/08/22
720107	29/07/22
720533	29/07/22
720108	22/07/22
720501	22/07/22
720506	13/07/22
720106	22/06/22
720520	21/06/22
720514	14/06/22
720523	01/06/22
720555	01/06/22
720526	27/05/22
720528	20/05/22
720105	06/05/22
720524	03/05/22
720589	30/03/22
720588	28/03/22
720529	17/03/22
720587	15/03/22
720527	14/03/22
720585	08/03/22
720572	25/02/22
720579	25/02/22
720586	25/02/22
720525	22/02/22
720584	18/02/22
720532	11/02/22
720530	03/02/22
720576	26/01/22
720531	20/01/22
720575	20/01/22
720567	07/01/22
720578	22/12/21
720581	17/12/21
720521	14/12/21
720535	03/12/21
720565	29/11/21
720577	12/11/21
720580	12/11/21
720570	01/11/21
720574	01/11/21
720569	22/10/21
720573	22/10/21
720546	01/10/21
720571	29/09/21
720554	24/09/21
720545	22/09/21
720559	03/09/21
720560	03/09/21
720566	03/09/21
720568	03/09/21
720557	10/08/21
720563	10/08/21
720549	05/08/21
720551	05/08/21
720561	26/04/21
720542	06/04/21
720547	31/03/21
720522	19/03/21
720562	19/03/21
720553	10/03/21
720564	10/03/21
720552	17/02/21
720558	17/02/21
720550	23/12/20
720556	23/12/20
720543	17/12/20
720548	17/12/20
720539	11/12/20
720540	11/12/20
720511	21/08/20
720515	21/08/20
720517	21/08/20
720536	21/08/20
720537	21/08/20
720538	21/08/20

Wow, thank you so much.

 

[Roger B]

Unit number	Bought by GA date
720119	14/02/23
720544	07/02/23
720508	01/02/23
720117	31/01/23
720103	26/01/23
720120	19/01/23
720118	23/12/22
720541	23/12/22
720116	20/12/22
720114	09/12/22
720513	25/11/22
720507	18/11/22
720115	04/11/22
720113	28/10/22
720112	21/10/22
720109	07/10/22
720111	30/09/22
720582	24/09/22
720110	31/08/22
720512	31/08/22
720107	29/07/22
720533	29/07/22
720108	22/07/22
720501	22/07/22
720506	13/07/22
720106	22/06/22
720520	21/06/22
720514	14/06/22
720523	01/06/22
720555	01/06/22
720526	27/05/22
720528	20/05/22
720105	06/05/22
720524	03/05/22
720589	30/03/22
720588	28/03/22
720529	17/03/22
720587	15/03/22
720527	14/03/22
720585	08/03/22
720572	25/02/22
720579	25/02/22
720586	25/02/22
720525	22/02/22
720584	18/02/22
720532	11/02/22
720530	03/02/22
720576	26/01/22
720531	20/01/22
720575	20/01/22
720567	07/01/22
720578	22/12/21
720581	17/12/21
720521	14/12/21
720535	03/12/21
720565	29/11/21
720577	12/11/21
720580	12/11/21
720570	01/11/21
720574	01/11/21
720569	22/10/21
720573	22/10/21
720546	01/10/21
720571	29/09/21
720554	24/09/21
720545	22/09/21
720559	03/09/21
720560	03/09/21
720566	03/09/21
720568	03/09/21
720557	10/08/21
720563	10/08/21
720549	05/08/21
720551	05/08/21
720561	26/04/21
720542	06/04/21
720547	31/03/21
720522	19/03/21
720562	19/03/21
720553	10/03/21
720564	10/03/21
720552	17/02/21
720558	17/02/21
720550	23/12/20
720556	23/12/20
720543	17/12/20
720548	17/12/20
720539	11/12/20
720540	11/12/20
720511	21/08/20
720515	21/08/20
720517	21/08/20
720536	21/08/20
720537	21/08/20
720538	21/08/20

Many thanks gdj - really helpful.

There's been some discussion here and on the New Units in 2023 thread about 720541 - has it entered service yet / when was its first day in service, etc. From this, it seemed to me, from various sources, that the earliest date into service may have been around 10th Jan 2023, but seeing it was 'Bought by GA' (isn't the 720 fleet owned by Angel Trains?) on 23rd Dec 2022, perhaps it actually entered service in 2022?

If anyone's seen it in service, could they respond with the date they first saw it in service, please. MTIA for all information provided to clear this one up - much appreciated.

 

[gdj]

Many thanks gdj - really helpful.

There's been some discussion here and on the New Units in 2023 thread about 720541 - has it entered service yet / when was its first day in service, etc. From this, it seemed to me, from various sources, that the earliest date into service may have been around 10th Jan 2023, but seeing it was 'Bought by GA' (isn't the 720 fleet owned by Angel Trains?) on 23rd Dec 2022, perhaps it actually entered service in 2022?

If anyone's seen it in service, could they respond with the date they first saw it in service, please. MTIA for all information provided to clear this one up - much appreciated.

Sorry just to clarify "bought" date, I'm told, is date GA signed the lease, after successful FFR & Inspections. The only other bits of info I have are that 720/103 went into service same day as bought and 720/122 arrived on site at Ilford yesterday afternoon.

 

[60159]

Sorry just to clarify "bought" date, I'm told, is date GA signed the lease, after successful FFR & Inspections. The only other bits of info I have are that 720/103 went into service same day as bought and 720/122 arrived on site at Ilford yesterday afternoon.

Do you mean720/121/122?
If previous entries are correct and 123-144 are not yet being built then only those built for a while to enter service soon.

 

[gdj]

Do you mean720/121/122?
If previous entries are correct and 123-144 are not yet being built then only those built for a while to enter service soon.

720121 already in service, 720122 arrived at Ilford yesterday, presumably will be on fault free running next week. No idea if anything else expected in near future.

 

[GeoffS]

Many thanks gdj - really helpful.

There's been some discussion here and on the New Units in 2023 thread about 720541 - has it entered service yet / when was its first day in service, etc. From this, it seemed to me, from various sources, that the earliest date into service may have been around 10th Jan 2023, but seeing it was 'Bought by GA' (isn't the 720 fleet owned by Angel Trains?) on 23rd Dec 2022, perhaps it actually entered service in 2022?

If anyone's seen it in service, could they respond with the date they first saw it in service, please. MTIA for all information provided to clear this one up - much appreciated.

I saw 720541 in service on 31/01/23, but don't know if that was its first day or not.

 

[miklcct]

I suffered from a delay on a class 720 service from Cambridge North to London due to the emergency button in the toilet activated multiple times. After leaving Cambridge, the emergency in the toilet was activated which resulted in the driver investigating at the next station. The same happened again after departing from the next station and the driver had to announce that the green button in the toilet was for emergency. Eventually the train skipped stations and arrived London 15 minutes late.

Is the emergency button too easily confused with the door open / close button?

 

[60159]

720121 already in service, 720122 arrived at Ilford yesterday, presumably will be on fault free running next week. No idea if anything else expected in near future.

Many thanks.