Greater Anglia Class 379 Off-lease?

[Railperf]

Does anyone know for defnite when Greater Anglia Class 379's are due off-lease due to new Class 745's due in service?

 

[Wivenswold]

Mod may wish to merge this into the general GA Rolling Stock thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/greater-anglia-rolling-stock-updates.143516

It's a big unknown at the moment. A GA press release earlier in 2019 teased that as "they're fairly new" they may stay. Don't forget that the heavily delayed Aventras are also going to run on Stansted and Cambridge services. So there's plenty of work left for them for the next couple of years at least. I think the new GA livery will suit them if they stay.

 

[Domh245]

Most recent version of the franchise agreement (updated 21/10/19) says 1/8/20. Whether it's worth the paper it's written on is another question as all bar 27 of the Mk3 emus should have been released by now (with another 10 coming off lease tomorrow!)

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

August is what I heard, 20 going to Gautrain in SA.

 

[Wivenswold]

That's the first I've heard about the GA Electrostars going to South Africa, though Gautrain are in urgent need of 24 additional units for their expanding network. Having Electrostars already, it would make sense. But nothing is announced or even rumoured that I can see.

 

[swt_passenger]

That's the first I've heard about the GA Electrostars going to South Africa, though Gautrain are in urgent need of 24 additional units for their expanding network. Having Electrostars already, it would make sense. But nothing is announced or even rumoured that I can see.

It came up back in July, and on the face of it makes a certain amount of sense:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...in-seeks-second-hand-emus-from-the-uk.186724/
...but I don’t think it is particularly factual.

 

[whoosh]

Rumours of Great Northern getting them, doing away with the remaining 365s and having a few extra units overall.
Unsure whether this rumour started as wishful thinking, or has any basis?

 

[Doomotron]

Rumours of Great Northern getting them, doing away with the remaining 365s and having a few extra units overall.
Unsure whether this rumour started as wishful thinking, or has any basis?

It technically has basis as Southern (now GTR) wanted to be an all-Electrostar franchise. I wouldn't be surprised if they took on the c2c 387s as well but that's another thread...

 

[class379]

It technically has basis as Southern (now GTR) wanted to be an all-Electrostar franchise. I wouldn't be surprised if they took on the c2c 387s as well but that's another thread...

To me it makes sense for the 379s to displace the 387s on Great Northern as well as getting rid of as many 365s as possible, so more of the 387 can transfer to Southern and start to replace the 313s

 

[43096]

To me it makes sense for the 379s to displace the 387s on Great Northern as well as getting rid of as many 365s as possible, so more of the 387 can transfer to Southern and start to replace the 313s

379s would certainly be an upgrade on the 387s. However, the 365 fleet is now owned by DfT so doubt they would want them off lease - might be some pressure to get the stored sets back into service.

 

[bramling]

To me it makes sense for the 379s to displace the 387s on Great Northern as well as getting rid of as many 365s as possible, so more of the 387 can transfer to Southern and start to replace the 313s

The numbers match up for 379 replacing 387, but this essentially wouldn’t replace any 365s. Likewise 30x 379 is too many to replace 19x 365 without leaving units left over.

 

[hwl]

379s would certainly be an upgrade on the 387s. However, the 365 fleet is now owned by DfT so doubt they would want them off lease - might be some pressure to get the stored sets back into service.

All of the 365 fleet? Or just the off lease stuff with DfT...

 

[43096]

All of the 365 fleet? Or just the off lease stuff with DfT...

All of the 365 fleet is owned by DfT.

 

[Darandio]

August is what I heard, 20 going to Gautrain in SA.

To Gautrain? Heard where?

 

[hwl]

The numbers match up for 379 replacing 387, but this essentially wouldn’t replace any 365s. Likewise 30x 379 is too many to replace 19x 365 without leaving units left over.

20x 379s going to Jo'Berg would leave 10x for GN with another 6x 387s ex C2C which would be perfect given a single larger compatible fleet to replace the 365s...

 

[43096]

20x 379s going to Jo'Berg would leave 10x for GN with another 6x 387s ex C2C which would be perfect given a single larger compatible fleet to replace the 365s...

The alternative would be 29 x 387 to GTR (replace 313s plus capacity) with 10 x 379 and 19 x 365 replacing them at Great Northern.

 

[JonathanH]

The alternative would be 29 x 387 to GTR (replace 313s plus capacity) with 10 x 379 and 19 x 365 replacing them at Great Northern.

10 379s doesn't seem like a sensible fleet size for diagramming, particularly with the splits on the Kings Lynn route.

Some people on this forum appear to have a soft spot for 365s but would most passengers really appreciate 365s back on the Kings Lynn route?

 

[hwl]

10 379s doesn't seem like a sensible fleet size for diagramming, particularly with the splits on the Kings Lynn route.

They would end to being converted to 387 spec and work as a common fleet.

 

[43096]

Some people on this forum appear to have a soft spot for 365s but would most passengers really appreciate 365s back on the Kings Lynn route?

We know of one passenger who would rather have the 365s. She lives in Buckingham Palace and takes the train to Kings Lynn at Christmas.

 

[jon0844]

10 379s doesn't seem like a sensible fleet size for diagramming, particularly with the splits on the Kings Lynn route.

Some people on this forum appear to have a soft spot for 365s but would most passengers really appreciate 365s back on the Kings Lynn route?

365s will surely end up limited to where they can work for dispatch reasons (no bodyside cameras) and I wonder if the DfT might find somewhere else for them all to go? They're excellent trains with plenty of years left, but I am sure GTR would much prefer to have a more standardised fleet and trains that can operate anywhere.

I'd also like to see gangway doors used between units too, as that obviously gives a big advantage over 365s (as well as air conditioning that I know many enthusiasts detest, but makes a big difference all year around to saloon comfort).

 

[JonathanH]

They would end to being converted to 387 spec and work as a common fleet.

Yes, I can see that. I was responding to a post which suggested replacing 29 387s with 10 379s and 19 365s and suggesting that 10 379s alongside a fleet of 40 365s would be difficult to diagram.

 

[43096]

Yes, I can see that. I was responding to a post which suggested replacing 29 387s with 10 379s and 19 365s and suggesting that 10 379s alongside a fleet of 40 365s would be difficult to diagram.

They managed with fleets of 12 317s and 13 321s.

 

[bramling]

We know of one passenger who would rather have the 365s. She lives in Buckingham Palace and takes the train to Kings Lynn at Christmas.

I don’t necessarily think there’s much benefit to putting 365s back to Kings Lynn - and whatever happens the current practice of splitting and joining (pretty much every 387 diagram does this at least once somewhere) makes it very difficult to have a mixed fleet on this route.

However the 365s are perfect for what they’re doing at the moment, in particular the slight advantage in terms of seating capacity over 387s is appreciated on what are mainly with-flow commuter services.

 

[bramling]

365s will surely end up limited to where they can work for dispatch reasons (no bodyside cameras) and I wonder if the DfT might find somewhere else for them all to go? They're excellent trains with plenty of years left, but I am sure GTR would much prefer to have a more standardised fleet and trains that can operate anywhere.

I'd also like to see gangway doors used between units too, as that obviously gives a big advantage over 365s (as well as air conditioning that I know many enthusiasts detest, but makes a big difference all year around to saloon comfort).

Surely gangway doors are bit of a red herring on GN, given that the route has managed perfectly well without them for the entirety of living memory, and indeed on those fleets which have them (317 and 387) they have fallen into disuse.

Personally I’d take the extra seating capacity 365s offer over air conditioning. Not to mention the horrifying prospect of ironing boards!

 

[jon0844]

Surely gangway doors are bit of a red herring on GN, given that the route has managed perfectly well without them for the entirety of living memory, and indeed on those fleets which have them (317 and 387) they have fallen into disuse.

Personally I’d take the extra seating capacity 365s offer over air conditioning. Not to mention the horrifying prospect of ironing boards!

Being able to move freely between units is a benefit for me, as I've spent over 10 years boarding at one end and walking through to alight at the other. Admittedly, now 700s serve my journey I remain at the back all the way out of London 99% of the time, but I do it going into town.

I miss 365s, unless by chance they run one on a Saturday or Sunday for whatever reason, but they're not as cosy as they once were due to successive refreshes, and I have never been a fan of open windows for ventilation (and the hopper vents hardly ever worked). Worse still, many windows used to be broken and wouldn't close.

I wish they'd been given a proper refurbishment with air con retro fitted, but ultimately the issue isn't about gangways or aircon, it will be down to maintenance and dispatching. The latter can be mitigated by carefully controlling where they operate, but 379s would make more sense.

 

[bramling]

Being able to move freely between units is a benefit for me, as I've spent over 10 years boarding at one end and walking through to alight at the other. Admittedly, now 700s serve my journey I remain at the back all the way out of London 99% of the time, but I do it going into town.

I miss 365s, unless by chance they run one on a Saturday or Sunday for whatever reason, but they're not as cosy as they once were due to successive refreshes, and I have never been a fan of open windows for ventilation (and the hopper vents hardly ever worked). Worse still, many windows used to be broken and wouldn't close.

I wish they'd been given a proper refurbishment with air con retro fitted, but ultimately the issue isn't about gangways or aircon, it will be down to maintenance and dispatching. The latter can be mitigated by carefully controlling where they operate, but 379s would make more sense.

Please don’t say you’re one of those annoying people who just *has* to walk through the train to save a minute?

 

[jon0844]

Please don’t say you’re one of those annoying people who just *has* to walk through the train to save a minute?

The trains are never so busy that I can't, but if they are then I'll hang back. I don't squeeze by people!

I often walk through the train to alight under shelter at King's Cross while everyone else has got off and is getting wet. Obviously works only when a) people aren't boarding the train straight away to go back out or b) the train isn't coming out of service and the doors are going to be locked.

 

[MK Tom]

Any more news on what's happening to the 379s?

 

[D7666]

That's the first I've heard about the GA Electrostars going to South Africa, though Gautrain are in urgent need of 24 additional units for their expanding network. Having Electrostars already, it would make sense. But nothing is announced or even rumoured that I can see.

Gautrain seeks second-hand EMUs from the UK

SOUTH AFRICA: Gautrain Management Agency is planning to obtain second-hand rolling stock from the UK. This follows an abortive tender called in February 2016 for a fleet of 12 new four-car trainsets. Despite three bidders being shortlisted, none of the bids was compliant. After evaluating its...

www.railwaygazette.com

(a) the original Gautrain additional stock tender was for 12 4car new units; they got no suitable bids

(b) the revised (secondhand) procurement [ as at 2019] is 30 cars

I can't find a more recent media announcement.

So where have [1] 20 units further upthread or [2] 24 units (quoted above) come from ?

24 cars perhaps it is now they seek, to add 1 car each to the 24 units they already have ? (my guess!)

 

[Prestige15]

In my opinion it does makes sense if they move to GN to replace all of the 387's, allowing them to move to Southern (Consider it has southern interior)
I believe it would be possible to upgrade the 379 to 110mph if the OLE gets upgraded to withstand upto three photographs at that speed

Passengers will benefit greatly with seats that actually has comfort and REAL first class, Dare to say that 379's will also be a ideal unit for Gatwick Express