Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion

[TheEdge]

Although, this tweet is just a little bit special...
https://twitter.com/PassengerVoice/status/573811924669980672

Genuinely speechless. What? Really? Genuinely bemused by that. No top secret headcode from the experts I note, although I guess RTT doesn't list freight ones!

And I just noticed icing on the cake. The utterly pointless tweet is not only pointless but has been sent to Freightliner, the US lorry and truck marque, not Freightliner the UK FOC!

Have we blamed the fire on Jamie Burles or the Dutch yet?

 

[Pugwash]

You need to hang onto hauled sets Norwich to London for as long as you can, the LAST thing you really want are EMU's !

I don't see why not, you could have a 12 car EMU, offering lots more space that are a lot more reliable that the current stock.

 

[chubs]

I don't see why not, you could have a 12 car EMU, offering lots more space that are a lot more reliable that the current stock.

Agree, cant see an issue with EMU's at all if they are done to a good standard. Would be nice to keep the buffet too, but that can be done as the 170's had a buffet.

LHCS just keeps the enthusiasts happy...

 

[Dave1987]

Agree, cant see an issue with EMU's at all if they are done to a good standard. Would be nice to keep the buffet too, but that can be done as the 170's had a buffet.

LHCS just keeps the enthusiasts happy...

I don't see an issue with keeping the hauled sets. But if new trains are demanded then they should be the exact same stock as the rest of GEML. So either keep the hauled sets or have suburban EMU's.

 

[dk1]

I don't see an issue with keeping the hauled sets. But if new trains are demanded then they should be the exact same stock as the rest of GEML. So either keep the hauled sets or have suburban EMU's.

Couldn't disagree more. Norwich services should be 2+2 seating with enhanced 1st class & catering. Just the same as longer distance EMUs on other networks such as SWT.

 

[SPADTrap]

Although, this tweet is just a little bit special...
https://twitter.com/PassengerVoice/status/573811924669980672

Even if they'd put that to the correct Freightliner what were they looking for as an answer? Strange people.

 

[Dave1987]

Couldn't disagree more. Norwich services should be 2+2 seating with enhanced 1st class & catering. Just the same as longer distance EMUs on other networks such as SWT.

For what reason? If people want to get to Norwich in 90 minutes there is no reason why they need to intercity style sets. London - Clacton currently takes 90 minutes so why shouldn't they be intercity sets then? What makes the London - Norwich services so special? Should be two choices, be happy with the current hauled sets or have exactly the same suburban stock the rest of GEML has.

 

[Eshonbel]

For what reason? If people want to get to Norwich in 90 minutes there is no reason why they need to intercity style sets. London - Clacton currently takes 90 minutes so why shouldn't they be intercity sets then? What makes the London - Norwich services so special? Should be two choices, be happy with the current hauled sets or have exactly the same suburban stock the rest of GEML has.

I guess because it needs the electric doors as it stops everywhere (so needs to set off quicker). It's one of the only trains to stop at Ingatestone.

 

[chubs]

For what reason? If people want to get to Norwich in 90 minutes there is no reason why they need to intercity style sets. London - Clacton currently takes 90 minutes so why shouldn't they be intercity sets then? What makes the London - Norwich services so special? Should be two choices, be happy with the current hauled sets or have exactly the same suburban stock the rest of GEML has.

Why on earth do we have to be limited to only choices convinced by you?

Bit of a difference between the Norwich route and the stopping Clacton commuter route.

 

[Dave1987]

Why on earth do we have to be limited to only choices convinced by you?

Bit of a difference between the Norwich route and the stopping Clacton commuter route.

I would love to know what you think the differences are between the Norwich route and the Clacton route that make the Norwich services so deserving of intercity stock. For a 90 minute journey to Norwich there is no reason to have intercity stock. So if the hauled sets are replaced they should be the same stock as the rest of GEML. I one thing I hate on GEML is the constant priority London - Norwich trains get, often to the detriment of other services.

 

[dk1]

The main line to Norwich has always had better stock & treatment then the like of branch lines to Clacton. Off peak some of the loadings on that lines hourly service are very poor compared to the half-hourly Intercity. Does seem to be a case of sour grapes to me.

 

[Dave1987]

The main line to Norwich has always had better stock & treatment then the like of branch lines to Clacton. Off peak some of the loadings on that lines hourly service are very poor compared to the half-hourly Intercity.

That still doesn't explain why the Norwich services deserve intercity stock for a 90 minute journey. If a suburban EMU is suitable to be on for 90 minutes from Clacton (or Harwich in the peak) to London then why are they not suitable for 90 minutes to Norwich? Then the whole of GEML could have the same stock.

Does seem to be a case of sour grapes to me.

When you are running on time but get shoved over at Witham or held at Colchester because the Norwich - London is running late which in turn makes you late it does wear a little thin after a while yes.

 

[dk1]

There's the real reason then. Not worth me wasting my time any further.

 

[306024]

Maybe in recent years the Norwich line has taken priority but the 1962 electrification together with the new class 309s made the Clacton line service second to none.

With passenger numbers ever increasing, and precious little chance of increasing capacity for additional trains on the GEML short of ERTMS signalling, higher density trains for the the Norwich line is the logical, if unwelcome, consequence.

The compromise could be a fixed formation EMU, e.g. 10x 23m, 2FO, TSOB, 7TSO to maximise seating capacity. You can fight amongst yourselves whether there should be some / any 2+3 seating in standard

 

[LAX54]

I would love to know what you think the differences are between the Norwich route and the Clacton route that make the Norwich services so deserving of intercity stock. For a 90 minute journey to Norwich there is no reason to have intercity stock. So if the hauled sets are replaced they should be the same stock as the rest of GEML. I one thing I hate on GEML is the constant priority London - Norwich trains get, often to the detriment of other services.

The Clacton route is almost a just a commuter route now, but Norwich to London is marketed as Inter-City, and thus has Inter-City stock, and yes people do prefer IC sets, stand on Stowmarket and see how many don't bother with the 360 or 321 going Up Line and go for the Hauled Set !

 

[Pugwash]

The Clacton route is almost a just a commuter route now, but Norwich to London is marketed as Inter-City, and thus has Inter-City stock, and yes people do prefer IC sets, stand on Stowmarket and see how many don't bother with the 360 or 321 going Up Line and go for the Hauled Set !

Given the Journey times, it could be argued that the Clacton stock should have the same interior as the Norwich stock, GA is in need of some additional trains in order that all peaks can be 12 car and also to allow 321's to be refurbished.

It could be a bigger order of EMU's with end doors and 2+2 seating would be appropriate.

 

[306024]

Given the Journey times, it could be argued that the Clacton stock should have the same interior as the Norwich stock, GA is in need of some additional trains in order that all peaks can be 12 car and also to allow 321's to be refurbished.

It could be a bigger order of EMU's with end doors and 2+2 seating would be appropriate.

You presumably haven't seen the passenger loadings on the 17.32/17.52/18.12 Liverpool St to Clacton trains? If you had said inappropriate then I would have agreed

 

[Pugwash]

You presumably haven't seen the passenger loadings on the 17.32/17.52/18.12 Liverpool St to Clacton trains? If you had said inappropriate then I would have agreed

Have you seen the loadings AFTER Chelmsford ? they are probably less than half empty.

The problem is are their any more paths for more trains in the evening peak ? I suspect the answer is no.

 

[306024]

Or more than half empty perhaps? After Witham maybe, but those large numbers of Chelmsford and Witham passengers have to be moved by something.

Regarding paths you suspect correctly, which is why end doors are inappropriate as they increase station dwell times.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Some more diesels for the Norwich - Cambridge peaks would no doubt be welcomed - especially with Cambridge Science Park station (aka Cambridge East P+R) coming in for December 2016...

 

[TheEdge]

Some more diesels for the Norwich - Cambridge peaks would no doubt be welcomed - especially with Cambridge Science Park station (aka Cambridge East P+R) coming in for December 2016...

Welcomed maybe. Necessary, doubt it. From my experience only really the 1712 is properly full and standing from Cambridge, those either side of it may have standees but its not genuinely full, just people who don't want to sit by a stranger. Even then the 1712 has seats available after Ely.

As for the up trains, they tend to all be fine again till Ely.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Welcomed maybe. Necessary, doubt it. From my experience only really the 1712 is properly full and standing from Cambridge, those either side of it may have standees but its not genuinely full, just people who don't want to sit by a stranger. Even then the 1712 has seats available after Ely.

As for the up trains, they tend to all be fine again till Ely.

Useful comment - I can use that. Thank you.

 

[Dave1987]

Given the Journey times, it could be argued that the Clacton stock should have the same interior as the Norwich stock, GA is in need of some additional trains in order that all peaks can be 12 car and also to allow 321's to be refurbished.

It could be a bigger order of EMU's with end doors and 2+2 seating would be appropriate.

I stand by my statement that if the hauled sets are replaced all the stock on GEML should be the same suburban EMU's. I know that will upset the people further up the from Ipswich onwards but you do not *need* an intercity train for a 90 minute journey.

 

[samuelmorris]

Would it be too far-fetched to use the same type of EMU but develop a separate variant with end doors? In my humble opinion, 2+2 seating should be used throughout on the new units anyway, standard commuter or longer-distance.

To keep people abreast of 2015's punctuality performance for me so far on the three TOCs I use regularly:

Abellio Greater Anglia: 81% OT, 37% RT, average delay 2m39
C2C Rail: 86% OT, 38% RT, average delay 2m31
Thameslink: 58% OT, 8% RT, average delay 8m30

 

[sadgit]

I stand by my statement that if the hauled sets are replaced all the stock on GEML should be the same suburban EMU's. I know that will upset the people further up the from Ipswich onwards but you do not *need* an intercity train for a 90 minute journey.

Something like SWT's 444 Desiros (or something very much like them) would be ideal. Weymouth to Waterloo is 3 hours, which is over an hour longer than Norwich to Liverpool Street, and they are more than comfortable enough for such usage, having 2+2 seating throughout and a separate first class with 3+1. Something like that and it would be nice.

That said, London to Norwich is an intercity route and is/was franchised as such, so it isn't unreasonable for them to get intercity trains.

 

[dk1]

Something like SWT's 444 Desiros (or something very much like them) would be ideal. Weymouth to Waterloo is 3 hours, which is over an hour longer than Norwich to Liverpool Street, and they are more than comfortable enough for such usage, having 2+2 seating throughout and a separate first class with 3+1. Something like that and it would be nice.

That said, London to Norwich is an intercity route and is/was franchised as such, so it isn't unreasonable for them to get intercity trains.

Phew!! For an awful moment i thought you where about to suggest we attatch/detach at Ipswich. Thats been done & flogged to death.

 

[Rick1984]

Was in a refurbished Mkiii carriage. Big improvement but has the seat plastic been painted darker. Seems more beige than before?

 

[sadgit]

Was in a refurbished Mkiii carriage. Big improvement but has the seat plastic been painted darker. Seems more beige than before?

I didn't think the seat plastic had been changed at all... it looks pretty much the same to me.

 

[Rick1984]

Could be the lighting or that's is cleaner

 

[dk1]

Almost Norwich in 90 today. Following the failure of a 321 at Bethnal Green blocking in the 14:00 & 14:30 departures at Liverpool St, the 14:00 was duly caped & became 9P34 14:40 Calling Ipswich only. Departed 1 down at 14:41 terminating Norwich just 94 minutes later at 16:15 thanks to some nice regulating from Network Rail. It's next working (16:30up) was a right time start