Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[306024]

Not that much harder though, and as has been said before, they will be managed as one fleet, albeit usually allocated to separate flows.

In theory, but operational reality will see standard class no table Stansted units randomly turning up on Norwich services where passengers have booked first class. Not a good way to treat your customers who have paid a premium. Personally I can live without first class but a table allows me to work more productively.

 

[Bikeman78]

In theory, but operational reality will see standard class no table Stansted units randomly turning up on Norwich services where passengers have booked first class. Not a good way to treat your customers who have paid a premium. Personally I can live without first class but a table allows me to work more productively.

It will be a repeat of the Bedford class 319 fleet. Little attempt made to keep the 319/3 and 319/4 on the correct diagrams. I recall one day where more than 50% were on the wrong diagrams.

 

[Class 170101]

I'd tend to agree!

The future demand for Stansted is equally open to doubt, which is making the decision to have two sub-fleets look even more silly.

We can probably can forget the 3rd Norwich train per hour. No commercial demand in normal times, never mind now. The plan to reduce the journey time and turnround times on the Norwich service to be able to resource it with 9 units was certainly a bid aspiration. Whether that actually improved the overall timetable (including connections) is unknown, bid aspirations and reality are seldom similar.

The Stansted service is also a service that alternately serves Harlow Town and Bishops Stortford so a restoration to the normal timetable one day is not totally unrealistic even if airport traffic doesn’t pick up as quick as domestic traffic.

I think the Stansted service is more likely to recover sooner rather than later as it seems to have more tourists than business people in my experience. However the sub-fleets is always asking for trouble and even before the Class 745s are fully operating Class 745/1s have been on all day Intercity Diagrams.

As far as the 3rd Norwich I can't see any logic in it either. Whether there would be any value in a service plan of 20 minutes in the peak direction for more than the current one hour perhaps.

 

[chubs]

Would have been far sillier to have one fleet and have a closed buffet on every stansted service for numerous reasons.

 

[47421]

Yes, the foolish, shortsighted Abellio franchise bid team should have predicted a global pandemic when they wrote the bid 5 years ago. I’ll tell him when I speak to him later in the week.

Foolish, shortsighted is harsh, certainly naive. They made a whole series of commitments the deliverability of which at its most generous involves a level of wishful thinking which is not sensible in the UK rail industry context. They have delivered on none of the timetable enhancements per TSR2 due May 19 (extra train per hour off peak to Hert East and Southend Vic and extension of the LivSt Ips semi-fast to Norwich). And the full recast due May 20 with times per attachment will now be May 22 earliest.

Ditto PRM mods on 317s, 321s, ditto platform extension work at Hert East, Ware, St Margarets, Enfield Lock, Elsenham, Manningtree, Wickford, all years late or forgotten, ditto flexible ticketing initiatives.

Anyway we should be grateful to them for convincing Abellio that their bid was deliverable, the £280million shareholder funding to cover the losses amounts to a gift from Dutch taxpayers to DfT.

 

[Bald Rick]

Foolish, shortsighted is harsh, certainly naive.

I was being sarcastic. The lowest form of wit, I know!

The bid team did what they needed to to win it, within the rules of the game. Of course if the rules are specifying the impossible, then that’s what you’ll get.

 

[ashkeba]

Would have been far sillier to have one fleet and have a closed buffet on every stansted service for numerous reasons.

so keep it open. It would encourage some Cambridge passengers to change at Harlow or BS. I don't know if that is good or not.

 

[colchesterken]

What if someone had a first class ticket and the train was a Stansted would they get a refund or be told to wait for the next one

 

[306024]

so keep it open. It would encourage some Cambridge passengers to change at Harlow or BS. I don't know if that is good or not.

Regardless of the worn out arguments regarding the profitability of on train catering, are you seriously saying people will change trains and extend their journey times by up to 20 minutes just for the opportunity to buy a cup of tea?

What if someone had a first class ticket and the train was a Stansted would they get a refund or be told to wait for the next one

The next train could be a Stansted unit too at the moment. Just apply for a refund.

 

[ashkeba]

Regardless of the worn out arguments regarding the profitability of on train catering, are you seriously saying people will change trains and extend their journey times by up to 20 minutes just for the opportunity to buy a cup of tea?

No but I used to take a route with a 15 minute change instead of the direct service because the express part had a buffet where I could buy a lunch of pie and beer.

 

[CBlue]

No but I used to take a route with a 15 minute change instead of the direct service because the express part had a buffet where I could buy a lunch of pie and beer.

So you're saying that people wont faff around changing trains just to use a buffet rather than sit on a direct service, yet you think it's justification for keeping the counters open?

I don't get the gist of your argument.

 

[chubs]

so keep it open. It would encourage some Cambridge passengers to change at Harlow or BS. I don't know if that is good or not.

lol, come off it. There's no business case for it. It's not needed.

 

[ashkeba]

So you're saying that people wont faff around changing trains just to use a buffet rather than sit on a direct service, yet you think it's justification for keeping the counters open?

I don't get the gist of your argument.

I say a buffet does attract passengers despite a need to change but it would need to be more than the suggested just a chance of a cup of tea!

 

[CBlue]

I say a buffet does attract passengers despite a need to change but it would need to be more than the suggested just a chance of a cup of tea!

Sorry to say it but I don't think the vast majority of passengers are going to lengthen their hour long journey by 20 minutes just because the train has a buffet.

People on that line, myself among them, are pretty much used to grabbing a coffee / tea / other hot beverage of choice and a snack before boarding the train - especially given the prices normally charged on board! Audley End shop sold a decent filter coffee for about £1.50 before the first lockdown, can't see an on board service beating that.


Either way, I imagine the original need for the 745/1 subclass was so they had adequate capacity for the Stansted/Bishop's Stortford commuter runs, hence their different layout to the /0s?

 

[Bald Rick]

I say a buffet does attract passengers despite a need to change but it would need to be more than the suggested just a chance of a cup of tea!

You might, just might, extend your journey for 15 mins to get a cuppa if it is 3 hour journey.

Not for 30 mins to Liverpool St.

 

[ashkeba]

Either way, I imagine the original need for the 745/1 subclass was so they had adequate capacity for the Stansted/Bishop's Stortford commuter runs, hence their different layout to the /0s?

There is only 10 seat difference between them and that looks due to first class. The buffet appears to take the space of two bike bays. I like bikes but it seems a bit of a tossup whether 18 spaces circulating unpredictably is better than a consustent 6+buffet.

 

[Railperf]

..the original need for the 745/1 subclass was so they had adequate capacity for the Stansted/Bishop's Stortford commuter runs, hence their different layout to the /0s?

It seems to be that way even though we have seen a lot of the 4-seat bay window areas reduced to just 2 seats as passengers now plonk their luggage in front of them - preventing the remaining 2 seats being used.

 

[Energy]

I wouldn't be suprised if they just change the interior for the /1s to the /0s. Would it be that expensive?

 

[Bald Rick]

I wouldn't be suprised if they just change the interior for the /1s to the /0s. Would it be that expensive?

More expensive than not doing it, as there’s no point.

 

[chubs]

I wouldn't be suprised if they just change the interior for the /1s to the /0s. Would it be that expensive?

Why on earth would they waste money on that? Far more likely the other way round, they took the buffets out of the 170's....

 

[dk1]

Why on earth would they waste money on that? Far more likely the other way round, they took the buffets out of the 170's....

To be fair they where removed from the 170s after they where relegated from Intercity duties on the GEML to local/outer suburban. Most of the 1st class seating in the 50 car was also replaced with Standard.

 

[Wivenswold]

The fleet was ordered for a world that won't exist. While many of us saw issues with the mix of trains we'll never know if the GA bid team made the right call.
I think there will be changes over the coming year or two that move Greater Anglia even further away from the plan set out in 2015.

By 2030 there will be a unified network-wide rolling-stock procurement team and, just as happened in the 60's and 70s', we'll move towards a level of fleet standardisation buying UK-built fleets, with micro-fleets being axed. Just a gut feeling.

 

[86246]

To be fair they where removed from the 170s after they where relegated from Intercity duties on the GEML to local/outer suburban. Most of the 1st class seating in the 50 car was also replaced with Standard.

Looking back at that now, with the amount of first class seating plus buffet counter and guard's office that didn't leave much for standard class seating on a three car unit.

There won't be much to gain by removing the buffet counter on a twelve car 745.

 

[Spet0789]

Would have been far sillier to have one fleet and have a closed buffet on every stansted service for numerous reasons.

No need for a buffet on a 90 minute service. Far better to have one common fleet, tables in all trains, declassify First on Stanex and provide a buffet trolley service.

As an aside, I’d love to see the Japanese model of independent trolley operators deciding what to stock tried in the U.K.

 

[dk1]

No need for a buffet on a 90 minute service. Far better to have one common fleet, tables in all trains, declassify First on Stanex and provide a buffet trolley service.

As an aside, I’d love to see the Japanese model of independent trolley operators deciding what to stock tried in the U.K.

90 minute?

 

[Railperf]

No need for a buffet on a 90 minute service. Far better to have one common fleet, tables in all trains, declassify First on Stanex and provide a buffet trolley service.

As an aside, I’d love to see the Japanese model of independent trolley operators deciding what to stock tried in the U.K.

Sorry, there is alwasy a need for some sort of drinks and snack provision even if it were an onboard vending machine. Sometimes you have no time to grab a coffee at the station or outside the station. Especially now most of the station Pumpkin cafes seem to be shut

 

[RuddA]

Sorry, there is alwasy a need for some sort of drinks and snack provision even if it were an onboard vending machine. Sometimes you have no time to grab a coffee at the station or outside the station. Especially now most of the station Pumpkin cafes seem to be shut

Having travelled with young children and luggage, buying and juggling a coffee before boarding is not always easy. I was always grateful to see a trolley.

 

[Pugwash]

Sorry, there is alwasy a need for some sort of drinks and snack provision even if it were an onboard vending machine. Sometimes you have no time to grab a coffee at the station or outside the station. Especially now most of the station Pumpkin cafes seem to be shut

I see no need at all for a drink or snack provision on board any GA train, the journey times just do not warrant it.

In terms of journey time Clacton is as far from London as Norwich and there has been no catering on the Clacton Branch for 30 years.

 

[ashkeba]

I see no need at all for a drink or snack provision on board any GA train, the journey times just do not warrant it.

In terms of journey time Clacton is as far from London as Norwich and there has been no catering on the Clacton Branch for 30 years.

Is this "if I cannot have it then no one can" or "down with choice and convenience"?

 

[dk1]

Is this "if I cannot have it then no one can" or "down with choice and convenience"?

Exactly. Drives me nuts. Another race to the bottom.