Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[chubs]

The way that some seats are higher than others on the Flirt's reminds me of being on a bus rather than an intercity train. For the rest they look nice though.

Certainly very different from the mk3's. No vestibule doors to be constantly jammed open?! Will it be the same without the creaks and groans of the mk3's lurching out of Liverpool St.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The way that some seats are higher than others on the Flirt's reminds me of being on a bus rather than an intercity train. For the rest they look nice though.

I suspect it means there will be level boarding, which is definitely a good thing.

I really like the FLIRT interior - even more than I expected to, and I had high expectations. Son-of-LM can we have some 160m ones on the WCML Trent Valley services? I'll give up travelling VT if you do And the regional ones must be the highest quality interior ever to feature in a UK branch line DMU.

The Aventras, though, are garbage. 3+2 ironing boards, really?

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW I've submitted the view that 3+2 is stupid. It'll be ignored, but let's make them feel bad about such an insane decision.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, beware by the way - you can only submit the form once with a given email address! Muppets.

 

[87015]

FWIW I've submitted the view that 3+2 is stupid. It'll be ignored, but let's make them feel bad about such an insane decision.

So, how do you prpose moving the people into London without 3+2. Many 321s already have all seats taken from as far out as Colchester... Having had the 'pleasure' of a Stadler Regioshuttle tin rocket I hope the AGA ones are put together better. Awful things.

 

[wls1]

I welcome the use of 3+2, much better for commuter trains.

Better after the uprising from c2c with 357/3s and GN's 387s. Metro styles only work when their at their maximum capacity, which on 700s is around 1700 people on board, which never happens today with older rolling stock. When they have less than max capacity on board you can only think of whats the point of this extra space when you can all fit on a 12 car 377 instead and more people get a seat.

I do worry however on the use of 1 door per carriage on Flirts, given we dont know how small the carriages are.

 

[fireincairo]

Are the areas below the raised seats on a higher level than the gangway? Guessing the low ones are designed for people with limited mobility etc.

 

[Trainfan344]

I've put comments in, Sideways seats on what is supposed to be an Intercity service is a terrible idea, 90+ minutes on them does not look fun!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've put comments in, Sideways seats on what is supposed to be an Intercity service is a terrible idea, 90+ minutes on them does not look fun!

It's a multipurpose (wheelchair) area, you'll find those on the Pendolino and I think Voyager too!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are the areas below the raised seats on a higher level than the gangway? Guessing the low ones are designed for people with limited mobility etc.

Typically on FLIRTs the floor is sloped up towards the bogie and gangway with the seats on a level platform. Most of them will be at the lower level, it's only above the bogie that they are raised. Like a bus, it allows a lower floor, which should mean level boarding - about time we got that sorted in the UK really, as a high platform country there's no real excuse for a step up.

This feature is why FLIRTs tend to have one pair of centrally located doors rather than two pairs of narrower doors at the ends.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So, how do you prpose moving the people into London without 3+2. Many 321s already have all seats taken from as far out as Colchester... Having had the 'pleasure' of a Stadler Regioshuttle tin rocket I hope the AGA ones are put together better. Awful things.

The Regioshuttle is a very early design of Stadler's and I agree it's rubbish. The FLIRT is a very high quality design indeed. If you want to try one, there's a ton (tonne? ) of them in various parts of Europe.

If the trains are overcrowded increasing standing room and train length/frequency is more sensible than having seats that are narrower than most people who will sit in them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do worry however on the use of 1 door per carriage on Flirts, given we dont know how small the carriages are.

They're typically 16m, and it's a double door rather than single end doors as would be more usual on InterCity trains.

In any case even one narrow door (as the PKP and LEO Express ones have) in 16m isn't *that* much different in provision to two in 26m.

 

[chubs]

Are the Flirt's to have buffet's? It's hard to get an impression from just the 2 pictures really.

 

[47802]

Typically on FLIRTs the floor is sloped up towards the bogie and gangway with the seats on a level platform. Most of them will be at the lower level, it's only above the bogie that they are raised. Like a bus, it allows a lower floor, which should mean level boarding - about time we got that sorted in the UK really, as a high platform country there's no real excuse for a step up.

This feature is why FLIRTs tend to have one pair of centrally located doors rather than two pairs of narrower doors at the ends.

Well I would certainly disagree on that one the internal floor mess of high and lower bits I don't much like even if it has more level boarding at the platform.

Nothing wrong with the Aventra's in my view yes you can argue about the ironing board seats but then that standard fayre for short to medium distance trains now,

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well I would certainly disagree on that one the internal floor mess of high and lower bits I don't much like even if it has more level boarding at the platform.

I can't agree - level boarding is a huge, huge gain - combined with the typical pop-out step Stadler tend to use it means fewer PTI issues, no gap and wheelchair users able to get themselves on board without assistance - good all round. Do you also dislike low-floor buses?

Nothing wrong with the Aventra's in my view yes you can argue about the ironing board seats but then that standard fayre for short to medium distance trains now,

3+2 is dying out and is not standard fare for anything.

 

[dk1]

Are the Flirt's to have buffet's? It's hard to get an impression from just the 2 pictures really.

Yes, the buffet area (or Bistro as they've for some 1980s reason christened it) is located in coach 10 of the Norwich sets. There will be half of a standard class coach between it & the two 1st class vehicles.

 

[43074]

If the trains are overcrowded increasing standing room and train length/frequency is more sensible than having seats that are narrower than most people who will sit in them.

Realistically though that isn't really an option, many GA services into Liverpool Street are approx 240 metres long already, the maximum given platform lengths & station throat constraints on their network, and they're running at 22tph into Liverpool Street between 08:00 and 08:59; what realistically do you expect them to do that will also maintain the integrity of the service?

I also think most people would prefer a seat, given the choice actually, the Aventras will be working services as far out as Clacton & Ipswich, and if I commuting to/from, say, Colchester I'd certainly want a seat. Certainly on Great Northern there are complaints about the loss of seating capacity with 387s replacing 321s/317s, there's no reason to assume it would be any different on GA's network. 3+2 is more to meet DfT's capacity targets than anything else, as long as the targets are there 3+2 will continue to be used on outer-suburban services.

 

[47802]

I can't agree - level boarding is a huge, huge gain - combined with the typical pop-out step Stadler tend to use it means fewer PTI issues, no gap and wheelchair users able to get themselves on board without assistance - good all round. Do you also dislike low-floor buses?



3+2 is dying out and is not standard fare for anything.

Yes I do dislike low floor buses, but accept its better for disabled access

As has already been said 3+2 is likely to stay on some routes.

One might also ask the question as whether some platforms could be raised slightly for short lengths for such as standard suburban style EMU's to reduce the step height as per London Underground

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes I do dislike low floor buses, but accept its better for disabled access

So why do you not accept that this too is better for disabled access, meaning that a wheelchair user can at least at some stations board without any need for a ramp or assistance?

 

[306024]

FWIW I've submitted the view that 3+2 is stupid. It'll be ignored, but let's make them feel bad about such an insane decision.

You are entitled to your view of course. But 3+2 is not an insane decision for the GEML, so I doubt 'they' will feel bad at all. 43074 in post #77 has summed it up perfectly.

 

[47802]

So why do you not accept that this too is better for disabled access, meaning that a wheelchair user can at least at some stations board without any need for a ramp or assistance?

I never said I didn't accept that, however that doesn't mean to say I particularly like that arrangement and steps in the trains could cause more accidents for those able to walk particularly as it wont be something many people are used to in UK trains.

 

[Alfie1014]

Whilst 3+2 is not surprising because of the crowded nature of the GEML in the peaks, the fact that there will be no first class and very little 2+2 seating (only behind the cab ends and opposite toilets) will make longer journeys on what looks like the very unpopular Fanisa seats not terribly attractive for many. The contrast with the interior of the Stadler sets is quite noticible, 2+2 seats with armrests even in the bi-mode sets. I still think they could be a bit more flexible with the layouts keeping high density for the 10 car sets and a slightly more comfortable lower density layout in the 5 cars. I think one unindended consequence could be over crowding on the Norwich (InterCity) sets as people gravitate to the more comfortable trains if they can. And I dont understand the logic in having two small sub fleets (10+10) for the Norwich and Stansteds. Why not 20 of a common fleet that then could be used on both routes, with what they are proposing if they are short a Norwich set they can only substitue with something without First class and catering.

 

[Wivenswold]

The Aventras are awful. No tables, no seat spacers, ironing board seats, dull and drab.

Most passengers won't even notice that it's a new train, it looks so uninspiring.

 

[332 > 444]

Anyone notice the FLIRTS have a Jacobs bogie every two carriages? This makes for easier lifting at the depots I presume.

I'm surprised with the Aventras being 3+2 especially as these will be narrower. All in all the look smart with the Swiss design much smarter.

Now let me hope I pass my GA interview on weds so I can have a choice of 365/387/717 or these smart things

 

[J-2739]

To be honest, it's not like I'm ever going to travel on these ever, but I quite like the seat moquette, especially on the regional FLIRTS.

The Aventras are a bit of a surprise to me, I thought 3+2 seating was outdated? I'd much rather they made these trains more nicer to stand in, and it's probably gonna be narrow on these, since these trains are longer, so narrower, but apart from that, it's not half bad.

 

[chubs]

Yes, the buffet area (or Bistro as they've for some 1980s reason christened it) is located in coach 10 of the Norwich sets. There will be half of a standard class coach between it & the two 1st class vehicles.

Is there a trolley too on some services? (Seems random at the moment if you get one). If so I wonder how it will deal with the steps!

could cause more accidents for those able to walk particularly as it wont be something many people are used to in UK trains.

There's an interesting point in there about carrying hot drinks from the buffet to the other end of the train.

I think one unindended consequence could be over crowding on the Norwich (InterCity) sets as people gravitate to the more comfortable trains if they can.

This already happens now (although you could argue that it is the faster service from the few stations that the EMU's also serve). I can understand the need for 2 separate specced fleets, the EMU's operate quite different types of journey than the intercity sets.

The Aventras are awful. No tables, no seat spacers, ironing board seats, dull and drab.

Most passengers won't even notice that it's a new train, it looks so uninspiring.

Agree on the first point, but not the second. I think everyone will notice the difference in a shiny new train vs the clapped out EMU's on the line currently.

 

[wls1]

Only thing that is vaguely similar is the refitted 321s with the new seats and aircon. Can't for the life of me remember what they're called.

 

[dk1]

Is there a trolley too on some services? (Seems random at the moment if you get one). If so I wonder how it will deal with the steps!

Are you talking about 1st class hosts? If so then I doubt that finer detail has been planned yet. There are currently around 30 trains per day booked for them in addition to counter service (less Saturday & none Sunday). Standard trolley service only operates if there is no catering vehicle in a set these day.

 

[Nymanic]

They're typically 16m, and it's a double door rather than single end doors as would be more usual on InterCity trains.

In any case even one narrow door (as the PKP and LEO Express ones have) in 16m isn't *that* much different in provision to two in 26m.

The carriages will be longer than 16m - look closely, and you'll see that there's only an articulation on every other car connection. The train is essentially six pairs of carriages, with each pair sharing a central articulation.

~20m carriages may therefore be expected, until there's official word.

Curious, that.

Edit: I note that 332 > 444 is first to observe the distinctive bogie setup.

 

[HH]

"When I voted for Brexit, I din't vote for no con-tin-ental, fancy steps. Give me a good British (ish) train, with rock hard seats, bor".