Greater Anglia summer timetable changes

[RailWonderer]

I couldn't find a recent GA timetable thread so I thought I'd start a new one.

Does anybody know why the Chelmsford call has been moved to the xx:00 off Liverpool St and xx:30 off Norwich? Previously the xx:30 off Liverpool St and xx:00s off Norwich called there off peak.
Besides some morning peak amendments have there been any other changes?

 

[dk1]

I couldn't find a recent GA timetable thread so I thought I'd start a new one.

Does anybody know why the Chelmsford call has been moved to the xx:00 off Liverpool St and xx:30 off Norwich? Previously the xx:30 off Liverpool St and xx:00s off Norwich called there off peak.
Besides some morning peak amendments have there been any other changes?

It’s been mentioned many times in the Summer 2024 thread. The stops have been spread out by splitting Chelmsford/Stratford calls to give a more even journey time. Some other faster peak as well as weekend 93min timings.

 

[306024]

It also removes Chelmsford - Stratford passengers from the Norwich services. In the up direction in particular, especially Saturdays with families, many would try to get on a busy train and find themselves standing, with a comparatively empty train from Braintree just behind. While it means there are now 4 trains per hour between Chelmsford and Stratford instead of 5, the only real downside is it creates an imbalance in the service from Colchester to Chelmsford with three services in 13 minutes then a 29 minute gap, but you can’t have everything.

When the current timetable structure was designed back in 2009, despite the Olympic legacy, I don’t think anyone could have predicted Stratford to grow as quickly as it has.

 

[chubs]

Is the complete timetable recast well and truly dead? Maybe after the general election, would be good to see what's possible with all our shiny new trains and a very different world to what it was.

 

[RailWonderer]

Is the complete timetable recast well and truly dead? Maybe after the general election, would be good to see what's possible with all our shiny new trains and a very different world to what it was.

A GE recast is dependant on the ECML recast which has been said many times by industry people on here is not happening anytime soon.

 

[306024]

Is the complete timetable recast well and truly dead? Maybe after the general election, would be good to see what's possible with all our shiny new trains and a very different world to what it was.

As alive as Monty Pythons parrot. Unless you can run 100 mph freightliners, but that's too wild even for the speculative section.

A GE recast is dependant on the ECML recast which has been said many times by industry people on here is not happening anytime soon.

That's West Anglia, the not the GEML.

 

[RailWonderer]

As alive as Monty Pythons parrot. Unless you can run 100 mph freightliners, but that's too wild even for the speculative section.


That's West Anglia, the not the GEML.

If GA does recast they'll do everything at once so the WA affects the GE.

 

[720144]

I couldn't find a recent GA timetable thread so I thought I'd start a new one.

Does anybody know why the Chelmsford call has been moved to the xx:00 off Liverpool St and xx:30 off Norwich? Previously the xx:30 off Liverpool St and xx:00s off Norwich called there off peak.
Besides some morning peak amendments have there been any other changes?

Rarely enough on Sundays they do a 1 off nearly Norwich in 90 in the evening to flush passengers home from a big day out in the capital tho calls additionally at diss to add on the extra 3/4 min delay so it doesn’t catch up w the 00:30 service in-front of it then in the week peak hours there’s 1 rapid service in the morning to London as the 08:00 & back to Norwich in the evening as the 17:00 calls at Stratford Ipswich stowmarket & diss. Still think they should increase the ic route to every 15-20 like the stansaid express instead of every half an hour if ur waiting at stops beyond Colchester onwards who knows if the new timetable will stick to its words as soon as beaulieu park is built by next year tho. The geml is limited to 2 tracks beyond shenfield adding extra trains to off peak it will clearly ruin the peak hour.

 

[dk1]

Rarely enough on Sundays they do a 1 off nearly Norwich in 90 in the evening to flush passengers home from a big day out in the capital tho calls additionally at diss to add on the extra 3/4 min delay so it doesn’t catch up w the 00:30 service in-front of it then in the week peak hours there’s 1 rapid service in the morning to London as the 08:00 & back to Norwich in the evening as the 17:00 calls at Stratford Ipswich stowmarket & diss. Still think they should increase the ic route to every 15-20 like the stansaid express instead of every half an hour if ur waiting at stops beyond Colchester onwards who knows if the new timetable will stick to its words as soon as beaulieu park is built by next year tho. The geml is limited to 2 tracks beyond shenfield adding extra trains to off peak it will clearly ruin the peak hour.

08:57 Norwich-Liverpool St & 19:00 return (Ni93) are Saturdays Only (SO).

 

[mtmikethom]

I notice the 1700 Norwich - Liverpool Street service has reverted to its pre Covid Timings in that in departs Ipswich at 1741, 1 minute before the 1742 arrival from Lowestoft (that’s the one that has to sit at Saxmundham for 10 mins owing to Sizewell freight path), the past few years it’s been 1745.

 

[dk1]

I notice the 1700 Norwich - Liverpool Street service has reverted to its pre Covid Timings in that in departs Ipswich at 1741, 1 minute before the 1742 arrival from Lowestoft (that’s the one that has to sit at Saxmundham for 10 mins owing to Sizewell freight path), the past few years it’s been 1745.

It’s been 17:03 ex-Norwich for the last few years.

One reason was because a Ni90 service originally departed at 17:00.

 

[leytongabriel]

I notice the 1700 Norwich - Liverpool Street service has reverted to its pre Covid Timings in that in departs Ipswich at 1741, 1 minute before the 1742 arrival from Lowestoft (that’s the one that has to sit at Saxmundham for 10 mins owing to Sizewell freight path), the past few years it’s been 1745.

Yes - saw passengers belting down the platfrom to try to catch the ex-Norwich service running a few minutes late recently. Railway really not thinking about passengers here.

 

[dk1]

Yes - saw passengers belting down the platfrom to try to catch the ex-Norwich service running a few minutes late recently. Railway really not thinking about passengers here.

It was never a connection though. If you made it you considered yourself very lucky.

 

[RailWonderer]

Yes - saw passengers belting down the platfrom to try to catch the ex-Norwich service running a few minutes late recently. Railway really not thinking about passengers here.

I don't see why that service from Lowestoft can't be timed earlier. It's 16 mins behind the Sizewell freight.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Saxmundham around 1604 on 10/06/2024

Train information at Saxmundham around 1604 on 10/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[dk1]

I don't see why that service from Lowestoft can't be timed earlier. It's 16 mins behind the Sizewell freight.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Saxmundham around 1604 on 10/06/2024

Train information at Saxmundham around 1604 on 10/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It’s a single line and has to wait for it to clear Woodbridge.

 

[Bald Rick]

A GE recast is dependant on the ECML recast which has been said many times by industry people on here is not happening anytime soon.

The ECML timetable is linked to the WAML timetable, not the GEML. The GEML ‘recast’ has just happened…

If GA does recast they'll do everything at once so the WA affects the GE.

It has long been an unofficial rule in Anglia that you don‘t recast the WA and GE at the same time, as it is too much change to deal with in one go.

 

[greaterangrier]

The ECML timetable is linked to the WAML timetable, not the GEML. The GEML ‘recast’ has just happened…

Is there not going to be another change to accomodate Beaulieu Park?

There is absolutely no way to fit in Beaulieu Park stops in the SX off-peak up timetable. They do not fit on any of the 4 stopping GEML services

 

[Bald Rick]

Is there not going to be another change to accomodate Beaulieu Park?

There is absolutely no way to fit in Beaulieu Park stops in the SX off-peak up timetable. They do not fit on any of the 4 stopping GEML services

Thats not a recast.

 

[Class 170101]

There is absolutely no way to fit in Beaulieu Park stops in the SX off-peak up timetable. They do not fit on any of the 4 stopping GEML services

Really?

Realtime Trains | 1Y35 0953 Ipswich to London Liverpool Street | 12/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 1Y35 0953 departure from Ipswich to London Liverpool Street on 12/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Have a look at this schedule, how many minutes dwell is there at Witham? I would guess some of it might just be enough to stop at Beaulieu Park. I'm sure there are others like that.

 

[RailWonderer]

They’ve already increased Chelmsford calls on the Norwich IC southbound in the evening. The 16:48 and 17:48 in addition to the 18:21 (15:30, 16:00, 16:30 off Norwich). Is Chelmsford becoming busier?

I also think the Ipswich should drop the Shenfield call and serve Beaulieu when it opens. SHF already gets 6 fast tph and that way you wouldn’t slow down the rest of the service in general.

 

[Pugwash]

Annoyingly Chelmsford - LST services in the Morning are still taking 35-38 mins, there seems lots of timetable padding that could be removed.

 

[720144]

745104 went to Hornsey depot for 2 days

Realtime Trains | 5Q48 1849 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D | 14/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q48 1849 departure from Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D on 14/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q54 0508 Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 12/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q54 0508 departure from Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 12/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Adrian1980uk]

They’ve already increased Chelmsford calls on the Norwich IC southbound in the evening. The 16:48 and 17:48 in addition to the 18:21 (15:30, 16:00, 16:30 off Norwich). Is Chelmsford becoming busier?

I also think the Ipswich should drop the Shenfield call and serve Beaulieu when it opens. SHF already gets 6 fast tph and that way you wouldn’t slow down the rest of the service in general.

With the not so new trains performance (3 to 4 years old is probably stretching it to say they're new) the Norwich ICs can have the extra intermediate stop without changing end to end timing, I generally get 18:30 from Liverpool street and we now have the extra stop at Stratford instead of the 10mins just before Witham having caught the one in front. We still get the slow cruise into Colchester and generally early there but it makes sense to add the useful stops rather than them being in between stations.

This is also why it's generally impossible to spread up end to end times, less stops don't actually really speed it up, the only real way is reducing paths which is not a good outcome or massive infrastructure improvements between Shenfield and Colchester, i.e. 4 tracking. Passing loops are really not ideal as they rely on perfection timing of both services or one sitting in the loop waiting for other to pass through - not a great passenger experience

 

[Kilopylae]

I also think the Ipswich should drop the Shenfield call and serve Beaulieu when it opens. SHF already gets 6 fast tph and that way you wouldn’t slow down the rest of the service in general.

Is the main purpose of Beaulieu Park to serve local passengers to and from Chelmsford main or commuters/London passengers?

 

[306024]

Is the main purpose of Beaulieu Park to serve local passengers to and from Chelmsford main or commuters/London passengers?

Well both, depends where they want to go. It basically serves a big housing development.

I also think the Ipswich should drop the Shenfield call and serve Beaulieu when it opens. SHF already gets 6 fast tph and that way you wouldn’t slow down the rest of the service in general.

That would reduce connectivity at Shenfield with other services so is not the best idea.

 

[Southend Rider]

I also think the Ipswich should drop the Shenfield call and serve Beaulieu when it opens. SHF already gets 6 fast tph and that way you wouldn’t slow down the rest of the service in general.

i believe the stops at Shenfield are for connections to the Lizzy line and Southend Vic, not for Shenfield commuters.

 

[mtmikethom]

Really?

Realtime Trains | 1Y35 0953 Ipswich to London Liverpool Street | 12/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 1Y35 0953 departure from Ipswich to London Liverpool Street on 12/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Have a look at this schedule, how many minutes dwell is there at Witham? I would guess some of it might just be enough to stop at Beaulieu Park. I'm sure there are others like that.

 

[Horizon22]

Is the main purpose of Beaulieu Park to serve local passengers to and from Chelmsford main or commuters/London passengers?

Bit of both. Big housing development to accomodate c. 10,000 people (still being built) and would likely attract people from nearby villages / towns too. It's effectively "Chelmsford North". I'm not sure how much BP <> Chelmsford traffic there would be.

You've also missed of one other element - relieving a rather congested Chelmsford station.

 

[RailWonderer]

You've also missed of one other element - relieving a rather congested Chelmsford station.

Indeed that’ll be the best thing about it. Most similarly sized conurbations have two stations - Harlow Town and Mill, Woking and West Byfleet, and so on.

As for the capacity, the Norwich ICs run non stop Ipswich- Liverpool St mornings and evenings on Saturday which is good to see. I suggested a while back they remove calls and have a fast Ipswich to pick them up. By Chelmsford and even Colchester the 745s were so busy many (myself included) were unable to board.

The Norwich IC probably needs high capacity 3+2 or even peak extras it’s so busy in the mornings and evenings yet the 18:10 off Liv St still hasn’t been reinstated and the 17:50 has been moved to 18:00. Is GA too short of 745s to reinstate this service?

I can understand if they don’t want to use another triple 755 as they won’t want to stretch the fleet too much. I would suggest one 720 daily on the Norwich IC to soak passengers and free a 745 or triple 755 have a single or double 755 on the Ipswich stopper/semi fast as those are never nearly as busy.

 

[Horizon22]

The Norwich IC probably needs high capacity 3+2 or even peak extras it’s so busy in the mornings and evenings yet the 18:10 off Liv St still hasn’t been reinstated and the 17:50 has been moved to 18:00. Is GA too short of 745s to reinstate this service?

A 720 on a IC service would be mad idea! Would be better to sweep up the intermediate passengers on a 720 where the main boardings (likely Colchester and Ipswich) are. The issue with this is that there is already a 1802 departure which gets to Colchester 12 mins later than the 1800 service, so it already exists.

There's going to be no 1810 reinstatement, considering the recast and departues now occupying those paths.

It's a classic problem of people wanting to take the fast service (and possibly nicer stock) even though there's already a decent alternative that departs around the same time.