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Greater Manchester Bus Franchising Assessment

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nerd

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I have said this earlier but for clarity, I wasn't referring to TfGM's statements.

In reference to those statements, I have said that it does seem like arguing against motherhood and apple pie. We would all like to see more investment, better connectivity, more transport options and a means to improving public transport ridership. Now, whether those laudable aims can be achieved is something I am sceptical about. Not least because it doesn't tackle some of the fundamental changes in society - the reduction in spending power in the socio economic groups who are the greatest user of bus services through the reductions in welfare spending, and the move to internet shopping causing a collapse in retail footfall. This is less evident in the booming Manchester city centre, but is all too apparent in places like Wigan and Bolton where more than a quarter of shops are empty.

However, my concern surrounds the Buses Bill itself and the reasons behind it. Now, it could be a very altruistic, positive move courtesy of George Osborne. However, I question why the government would suddenly look to do this especially when it wasn't in the 2015 manifesto?

Remember the "big society" - the idea that there could be more social cohesion and greater social involvement to improve the society as a whole, that again sounds very laudable. In truth, it was a way of reducing the state's involvement, reducing expenditure and moving the burden to the voluntary sector. Now, I may be being very pessimistic but can you see a situation where they push this to a local controlling body and then remove BSOG? Even BusUsers state:

"The Buses Bill offers no new funding for any of the requirements associated with the opportunities made available in the Bill." and "It is not clear how the cost of the requirements involved will be found as “spare” cash for bus service provision is just not available in most local authorities."

Given how poor Nexus's proposal for a QCS was put together, it is only fair to sound a note of caution.

The last is a fair point; my reading is that the impetus for the Bus Services Act was the increasing political unpalatability for the Conservative Party of being seen to be defending both bus deregulation and the consequent emergence of monopolistic bus magnates. Obviously bus users outside London tended to be highly dissatisfied; but so too were advocates for private cars; as bus operators increasingly argued that investment in bus priority was essential; and this would always tend to be at the expense of private car users. Moreover Nicholas Ridley's neoliberal allies have now moved on; those who argue that all road use should be transformed into a regulation-lite, minimal enforcement, free-for-all, now tend to rid bikes.

But I don't see the Bus Services Act as reducing the involvement of the state - clearly re-introducing co-ordination, regulation and integration by public authorities, it goes the other way. What it does is to relocate central government action in this matter from Whitehall to City Regions and elected Mayors - just as in London.

But it is fair to say that the whole enterprise is contingent on better mobilising sources of funding; both in support of bus operations and for investment in infrastructure. The implication of the Bus Services Act is that funding of improvement in stopping bus services may be expected to come primarily from increased fare revenue. The current deregulated system has had the (unintended) effect of pricing large numbers of potential users out of the market. Introduce a simplified and integrated fare structure - with smart ticketing to guarantee best value fares for each trip - and bus usage will increase substantially with minimal impact on costs (urban buses typically running at between a third and half occupancy even at peak periods). You have identified longer term changes in travel demand as potentially inhibiting this short-term bonus - and that may well be an issue. TfGM reckon that accessible public transport into and through satellite urban centres can counter the presssures you identify - as clearly has been achieved in Bury and Altrincham. Wigan and Bolton are suffering - but these are both towns currently off the Metrolink and BRT map.

But overall a new system will indeed be predicated on 'new' sources of infrastructure investment. The deregulated system was deliberately designed to inhibit such investment; so as to direct resources into the favoured mode of private car provision. Now that has changed; but investment funds will still be needed. TfGM seem to link new investment chiefly with their aspirations for a BRT network, distinct from the stopping bus network; and the Spatial Framework document does indicate that they will be looking for partner funding in support of this from enterprises and developments benefitting from improved access; hence expecting the Airport to support the BRT route to Altrincham; and likely residential developers on the Woodford site contributing to investment in rapid bus infrastructure linking into the A6MARR. But there will certainly need to be substantial funds for investment raised through the local tax mechanisms; either earnback funds from the Treasury, or additional levies on Council Tax.
 
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HSTEd

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The Buses Bill exists as a carrot to get people to like the idea of elected mayors.
Thats why elected mayors are essentially the only people allowed to introduce them, without spcial permission from the SoS for Transport - who would never grant such permission.
 

nerd

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The Buses Bill exists as a carrot to get people to like the idea of elected mayors.
Thats why elected mayors are essentially the only people allowed to introduce them, without spcial permission from the SoS for Transport - who would never grant such permission.

Indeed so HSTEd; but that presumes that the powers conferred in the Act are ones that city regions would see as worth the effort of applying.
 

WatcherZero

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35 Bus operating currencies in the last fortnight received a very detailed questionnaire from TfGM on their views on various working arrangements for franchising.
They've apparently now got the shape of the franchise model they intend to pursue and are seeking to refine it with the operator feedback.
 

higthomas

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35 Bus operating currencies in the last fortnight received a very detailed questionnaire from TfGM on their views on various working arrangements for franchising.
They've apparently now got the shape of the franchise model they intend to pursue and are seeking to refine it with the operator feedback.

I wonder what the dollar will have to say on it? :lol:

I don't suppose anyone has a copy of it?
 

WatcherZero

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Lol text prediction

Not seen it personally but told its technical questions on financial and contract mechanics rather than a 'this is what we are going to do, what do you think', they are also being careful to use language which doesn't prejudge the outcome.
 

158756

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An update on Manchester's 'Bus Reform Objectives' here: https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/3212/10_bus_reform_objectiveshere

I don't think it says much new.

I would pick up on the statement that '' There should not be period tickets of any type that are not valid for the whole of the bus network''. Does that just mean abolishing operator specific tickets, or does it mean you will need a ticket valid from Marple to Standish to travel 3 stops?
Not sure what to make of part 2.7 either - if Demand Responsive Transport is going to grow without competing with buses, are the buses going to be cut?

Is there any idea of when we will find out what, if anything, this will actually mean for the travelling public?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Not sure what to make of part 2.7 either - if Demand Responsive Transport is going to grow without competing with buses, are the buses going to be cut?

Could simply mean that there are DRT feeders into existing hubs? Common in certain European countries and about to be piloted in Bristol with existing bus services being linked into a taxi service.
 

Dentonian

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An update on Manchester's 'Bus Reform Objectives' here: https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/3212/10_bus_reform_objectiveshere

I don't think it says much new.

I would pick up on the statement that '' There should not be period tickets of any type that are not valid for the whole of the bus network''. Does that just mean abolishing operator specific tickets, or does it mean you will need a ticket valid from Marple to Standish to travel 3 stops?
Not sure what to make of part 2.7 either - if Demand Responsive Transport is going to grow without competing with buses, are the buses going to be cut?

Is there any idea of when we will find out what, if anything, this will actually mean for the travelling public?

The two bits of this that are unclear are:

3.2; i. seems to contradict ii. Am I misinterpreting the first part which seems to promise equalisation of fares (for a given distance) across the county, but ii. suggests different fares to encourage patronage in certain areas.

4.4; Famous northern phrase; "Fur coat and no knickers". Its all very going on about wi-fi etc etc, but there is no mention of seat comfort/cushion pitch or legroom.

Possibly of far more concern though, is what I have been reading in the trade press which suggests that the total pvr of the combined franchises, will be about 1500, compared to seperate estimates (not sure how accurate they are) of 1800 now. That suggests a 20% *reduction* in peak hour services. Whilst there are overbussed corridors, I doubt they would render much more than 30 buses surplus - certainly nowhere near 300 - and what about increasing the proportion of public transport in a county that is supposed to be increasing both employment and general population over the next 22 years?
 

158756

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The two bits of this that are unclear are:

3.2; i. seems to contradict ii. Am I misinterpreting the first part which seems to promise equalisation of fares (for a given distance) across the county, but ii. suggests different fares to encourage patronage in certain areas.

I would interpret it to mean that any particular journey should only have one set of fares, e.g the busway costs the same as a stopping bus, but that doesn't preclude a different journey of the same distance being more of less expensive. (E.g Manchester-Ellenbrook Vantage= Ellenbrook round the houses =/= Kearsley)

4.4; Famous northern phrase; "Fur coat and no knickers". Its all very going on about wi-fi etc etc, but there is no mention of seat comfort/cushion pitch or legroom.

Unfortunately I don't think comfort is going to be a high priority on most buses - if everyone rushed to travel on a bus with comfy seats they'll have to stand anyway. Most buses are going to have Wi-Fi in a few years regardless of how interested GMCA are.

Possibly of far more concern though, is what I have been reading in the trade press which suggests that the total pvr of the combined franchises, will be about 1500, compared to seperate estimates (not sure how accurate they are) of 1800 now. That suggests a 20% *reduction* in peak hour services. Whilst there are overbussed corridors, I doubt they would render much more than 30 buses surplus - certainly nowhere near 300 - and what about increasing the proportion of public transport in a county that is supposed to be increasing both employment and general population over the next 22 years?

1800 sounds too high to me, but even if there are cuts there's the competition on Oxford Road, Walkden and Middleton to start with, also on a smaller scale in Horwich and Ramsbottom, just two examples I know of. Some might also take the view that lower frequencies or fewer direct routes would be acceptable in some places, especially if there isn't any extra money forthcoming to fund any improvements.
 

Bletchleyite

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I would pick up on the statement that '' There should not be period tickets of any type that are not valid for the whole of the bus network''. Does that just mean abolishing operator specific tickets, or does it mean you will need a ticket valid from Marple to Standish to travel 3 stops?

By "period tickets" I think they mean "season tickets" or possibly also "one day rover tickets" - and even (much larger) London only has one level of bus-only season ticket; Zones only apply to rail modes.

I think what that can be translated as meaning is "there will be no operator-specific bus season tickets", an objective I wholly support.

I wouldn't totally rule out some kind of zonal approach to season tickets later, such as that on Merseyside (which is and has been for years near-enough the German zonal model imported directly to the UK).
 

Bletchleyite

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1800 sounds too high to me, but even if there are cuts there's the competition on Oxford Road, Walkden and Middleton to start with, also on a smaller scale in Horwich and Ramsbottom, just two examples I know of. Some might also take the view that lower frequencies or fewer direct routes would be acceptable in some places, especially if there isn't any extra money forthcoming to fund any improvements.

Oxford Road is at many times of day still overbussed. What I'd like to see, and what I think we will see, is a reduced number of routes/variants[1] and possibly even off-bus ticketing and articulated buses - the kind of thing that is really needed on this kind of super-busy corridor.

It's interesting to compare the operation of Oxford Road with the almost identical (city->university->place with lots of student residences) Metrobus 5 in Hamburg, both of which I've directly experienced as a student (though the Hamburg route was the 102 back then). The former is overbussed with double deckers, slow loading/alighting and a million and one route variants. The latter is a single route using artics (double artics have been used though I don't know if they still are) and loads very heavily at most times of day. There are upsides and downsides of both but this seems an excellent opportunity to get the best of both worlds.

(FWIW the Oxford Road corridor is allegedly the busiest bus corridor in Europe across all the route variants, while the Metrobus 5 is allegedly the busiest single-number bus route in Europe - quite some commonality there)

[1] Wiki shows 9 variants, 41/42/42A/42B/43/44/141/142/143. I'd suggest you could probably get it down to 2 - 42 to Stockport (with some short workings to Parrs Wood) and 43 to and possibly beyond West Didsbury. There might even be a case for sending the 50 on to Stockport and just running the 42 to Parrs Wood. Obviously 14x would go (just like their railway numbersakes) because they only exist for price differentiation.
 
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158756

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[1] Wiki shows 9 variants, 41/42/42A/42B/43/44/141/142/143. I'd suggest you could probably get it down to 2 - 42 to Stockport (with some short workings to Parrs Wood) and 43 to and possibly beyond West Didsbury. There might even be a case for sending the 50 on to Stockport and just running the 42 to Parrs Wood. Obviously 14x would go (just like their railway numbersakes) because they only exist for price differentiation.

The 41 is (rather weak) competition from First (who also run a version of the 42), though the link to Sale should probably be retained even if not as a direct route to the city centre. The 44 is a tendered route which exists to serve areas off the main route - it could probably do with running more than hourly.

Assuming you just keep the 42 and 43, I'd suggest you might need to up the frequency of one of them - it's a massive cut from the current frequency down to 12 bph. The 43 needs to continue to Northenden at least, and then may as well continue to Wythenshawe. The extensions of the 42A and 42B need to retain buses, though the A probably doesn't need to go to the city centre.

On paper that looks fine as long as you have enough capacity on the remaining buses, but the students will object, and it will be politically problematic if they have to pay more than Magic Bus fares.
 

daodao

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The two bits of this that are unclear are:

3.2; i. seems to contradict ii. Am I misinterpreting the first part which seems to promise equalisation of fares (for a given distance) across the county, but ii. suggests different fares to encourage patronage in certain areas.

4.4; Famous northern phrase; "Fur coat and no knickers". Its all very going on about wi-fi etc etc, but there is no mention of seat comfort/cushion pitch or legroom.

Possibly of far more concern though, is what I have been reading in the trade press which suggests that the total pvr of the combined franchises, will be about 1500, compared to seperate estimates (not sure how accurate they are) of 1800 now. That suggests a 20% *reduction* in peak hour services. Whilst there are overbussed corridors, I doubt they would render much more than 30 buses surplus - certainly nowhere near 300 - and what about increasing the proportion of public transport in a county that is supposed to be increasing both employment and general population over the next 22 years?

Conversion of the Network Rail routes to Glossop/Marple to Metrolink should reduce the bus requirements along the Hyde road corridor significantly.
 

nerd

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I think it is already clear that there will be a discounted, GM-wide, student's period pass.

One key issue is that current restricted ticketing effectively halves service frequency; as the prospective traveller cannot board the first bus that comes around, unless the operator is the one specified on their ticket. Which, I suspect, is the key point underlying the statement that there can be no fares restricted to one operator. I am sure that we will see fewer buses along the Oxford Road route; and more along other radial routes into town. Whether that implies a substantially reduced pvr, is something we will have to see.
 

Bletchleyite

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There are other things that will reduce PVR on Oxford Road besides cutting a bit of the overbussing back. The present single-door double-decker operation causes proportionally very long dwell times at stops, often several minutes at particularly busy ones like Fallowfield and the two University stops. Replace that with 3-door artics with all door boarding (or even with London style on at the front, off at the back) and it would be reduced substantially.

It's about time this rampant "we've always done this way" conservatism was challenged. For this kind of route, we need to be looking at no stop being longer than 30 seconds or so unless wheelchair access is required on that occasion - at quiet stops even shorter, ideally perhaps 10-15 seconds. That needs off-bus ticketing or a big move to contactless payment with a flat fare London-style (no paying cash to the driver), it needs wide, fast-moving doors and it needs buses with lots of space inside and no motivation not to "move down" so needs an exit door as far back as feasible. These can only sensibly be delivered using single-deck artics (or 15m single deck rigid buses if the route can be made suitable).

It genuinely is educational as I said above to compare Oxford Road with Metrobus 5 in Hamburg, they are VERY similar routes with hugely different implementation. I genuinely think some TfGM officials should take a trip over there and ride on it when deciding how to design the future of bus transport on Oxford Road.
 

nerd

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Capacity issues along Oxford Road are serious only from Fallowfield inbound. In my view there would be a case for high capacity, battery-power, multidoor, articulated units running a service from Fallowfield through the City Centre to Salford Crescent. Maybe one or two other cross-city corridors as well.

But for many longer trips; the double-decker, pay the driver, single door configuration (likely gas powered in the future) looks to have a fair amount of life in it. As per the Vantage services, Red Express and WitchWay.
 

Bletchleyite

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Capacity issues along Oxford Road are serious only from Fallowfield inbound. In my view there would be a case for high capacity, battery-power, multidoor, articulated units running a service from Fallowfield through the City Centre to Salford Crescent. Maybe one or two other cross-city corridors as well.

One thing that could work would be that you would have that dedicated route from Fallowfield using 3-door artics and with off bus ticketing or contactless (touch in) only, then every other route using Oxford Road would run express and set-down only (pick-up only out of Manchester), calling at Fallowfield, one stop in Rusholme, both University stops then wherever it goes in Manchester city centre. That would allow the "best of both worlds" to persist. However, I do think that a move to two door (on at the front, off at the back) and touch in/out contactless on all routes would be sensible just to keep things moving a bit better. There is a reason only the UK uses single door and why cash to the driver is deprecated in most countries.

But for many longer trips; the double-decker, pay the driver, single door configuration (likely gas powered in the future) looks to have a fair amount of life in it. As per the Vantage services, Red Express and WitchWay.

Only really for proper express routes - it's no great harm on the Oxford-Cambridge X5, for example, nor on the latter two above, nor something halfway-house like the Lakeland 555 or the "other" X5 in the north Lakes. On the Vantage service it makes no sense - that should have exclusively off-bus ticketing via TVMs and contactless, as it's basically a rubber tyred interurban tram. It, similarly to Oxford Road, needs to be looking at a maximum dwell time at the busiest times of day of 30 seconds. For a longer conventional journey double decker does still work - you can have a standee / wheelchair / accessible configuration downstairs (basically no seating downstairs for you unless you physically can't go upstairs) and quality seating upstairs - but you still need the boarding speed enhancements.
 

Dentonian

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Conversion of the Network Rail routes to Glossop/Marple to Metrolink should reduce the bus requirements along the Hyde road corridor significantly.
I think this suggestion needs more detail. 1. Pairing Marple with Glossop suggest s you mean the route through Guide Bridge. This line runs nowhere near Hyde Road .or really Hyde itself
2. I be heard that Hyde Road corridor is still the heaviest loading corridor (0800-0900) in GM. Not surprising given its low levels of car ownership along virtually the whole of its catchment area. Indeed had Stagecoach themselves not slashed services through Denton (2009) & Reddish (2015), this suggestion alone would go some way to explaining their objection to franchising.
 

nerd

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Good points Bletchleyite.

Personally, I have always been in favour of moving to off-board ticketing in general, not the least because it might allow common ticketing on Bus Rapid Transit services to trams and trains. But I do notice that UK BRT systems that started out with the aspiration to establish exclusive off-board ticketing - the Cambridgeshire busway, and Kent Fastrack - have gone back to retaining the capability for paying the driver. Moreover, it does seem that Vantage have been able to maintain their timetable reliability, even with no off-board TVMs at any stop. Where most passengers are travelling end-to-end, and where there are plentiful opportunities to buy (discounted) period tickets on-line, there does seem to be a case for continuing on-board ticketing. Bristol's Metrobus, is clearly takiing a stand against any on-board sales, and it will be interesting to see whether this is successful.

The problem, of course, is that off-board ticketing renders the system dependent on TVM supply (and very vulnerable to vandalism). The overwhelming majority of Metrolink complaints relate to non-functioning or vandalised TVMs. So there is a case for saying that only high volume services, with high rates of boarding/alighting mid-route, really justify 'off-board only' ticketing policies.
 

158756

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I think this suggestion needs more detail. 1. Pairing Marple with Glossop suggest s you mean the route through Guide Bridge. This line runs nowhere near Hyde Road .or really Hyde itself
2. I be heard that Hyde Road corridor is still the heaviest loading corridor (0800-0900) in GM. Not surprising given its low levels of car ownership along virtually the whole of its catchment area. Indeed had Stagecoach themselves not slashed services through Denton (2009) & Reddish (2015), this suggestion alone would go some way to explaining their objection to franchising.

I don't know the area, but the census suggests most commuter bus use on Hyde Road is/was inside the M60, with most of the rest from Denton, not Hyde. So it would seem to me that the line to Marple via Reddish would be the best one to reduce demand there. Can't do much about Denton though.
 

Bletchleyite

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The problem, of course, is that off-board ticketing renders the system dependent on TVM supply (and very vulnerable to vandalism). The overwhelming majority of Metrolink complaints relate to non-functioning or vandalised TVMs. So there is a case for saying that only high volume services, with high rates of boarding/alighting mid-route, really justify 'off-board only' ticketing policies.

There are of course other ways to do it than TVMs. There could be a significant expansion of "My Get Me There" with top-up at Paypal/Payzone stores and contactless acceptance (touch in and out), then you simply stop selling on board as London has.

Interestingly Croydon Tramlink is about to (or has already, I forget) get rid of all its TVMs as basically nobody is using them.
 

nerd

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I think this suggestion needs more detail. 1. Pairing Marple with Glossop suggest s you mean the route through Guide Bridge. This line runs nowhere near Hyde Road .or really Hyde itself
2. I be heard that Hyde Road corridor is still the heaviest loading corridor (0800-0900) in GM. Not surprising given its low levels of car ownership along virtually the whole of its catchment area. Indeed had Stagecoach themselves not slashed services through Denton (2009) & Reddish (2015), this suggestion alone would go some way to explaining their objection to franchising.

Indeed; there does seem to be a big potential for increasing bus frequencies along Hyde Road from Denton. Realistically, any Metrolink proposals are a long way off, and won't influence franchising decisions now. My own view is that Hyde Road would be a prime candidate for a limited-stop Bus Rapid Transit route from Denton into town; on similar principles to the Leigh busway/A580 buslanes. Which would imply consistent provision of off-lane bus stops; so the limited stop services can overtake the stopping services.
 

nerd

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Such is the uptake in smartphone technologies, off bus is now much easier. Metrobus are installing TVMs anyway but given the level of off bus anyway in Bristol, you can see it being a semi temporary measure!

could be; I certainly expect off bus ticketing to be universal long-term. But not everyone has a smartphone charged-up (and the groups where take-up is less, are commonly more likely to be bus users). Once the 'Get Me There' app is working fully, it may be time to look again. For the present though, a lot of regular users do seem to value being able to pay the driver - which does not seem currently to create that degree of difficulty. After all, the driver would be there anyway, it is not as though conductors were being proposed.
 
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Bletchleyite

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could be; I certainly expect off bus ticketing to be universal long-term. But not everyone has a smartphone charged-up (and the groups where take-up is less, are commonly more likely to be bus users). Once the 'Get Me There' app is working fully, it may be time to look again. For the present though, a lot of regular users do seem to value being able to pay the driver - which does not seem currently to create that degree of difficulty. After all, the driver would be there anyway, it is not as though conductors were being proposed.

The problem is that paying the driver causes longer running times, which both makes the bus less attractive (to get people out of cars) and causes increased cost by way of requiring higher PVRs.

Having said that, if they implemented touch-in-and-out contactless, the odd few who would still pay cash, particularly if there was a premium for doing so, would I suspect be small enough in number that the delay would be substantially reduced. That said, the reduced cost of the bus operator not having to handle *any* cash at all (so being able to close their cash office and reduce their banking costs) as well as improved driver safety must surely eventually win out in favour of cash payments being taken at the likes of PayPoint/Payzone shops instead, which are plentiful in most urban areas (and we are talking about a primarily urban bus network here).

I'll be honest, I do use the smartphone apps sometimes but compared with simply touching on and off with a card (or Apple/Android Pay) they are a huge faff.
 

Dentonian

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One thing that could work would be that you would have that dedicated route from Fallowfield using 3-door artics and with off bus ticketing or contactless (touch in) only, then every other route using Oxford Road would run express and set-down only (pick-up only out of Manchester), calling at Fallowfield, one stop in Rusholme, both University stops then wherever it goes in Manchester city centre. That would allow the "best of both worlds" to persist. However, I do think that a move to two door (on at the front, off at the back) and touch in/out contactless on all routes would be sensible just to keep things moving a bit better. There is a reason only the UK uses single door and why cash to the driver is deprecated in most countries.



Only really for proper express routes - it's no great harm on the Oxford-Cambridge X5, for example, nor on the latter two above, nor something halfway-house like the Lakeland 555 or the "other" X5 in the north Lakes. On the Vantage service it makes no sense - that should have exclusively off-bus ticketing via TVMs and contactless, as it's basically a rubber tyred interurban tram. It, similarly to Oxford Road, needs to be looking at a maximum dwell time at the busiest times of day of 30 seconds. For a longer conventional journey double decker does still work - you can have a standee / wheelchair / accessible configuration downstairs (basically no seating downstairs for you unless you physically can't go upstairs) and quality seating upstairs - but you still need the boarding speed enhancements.
Aren't you missing an important stop on Oxford Road for Non Students and longer distance pax?
 

Bletchleyite

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Aren't you missing an important stop on Oxford Road for Non Students and longer distance pax?

I assume you mean the MRI? That could be the Rusholme stop (for that end of it), if for Rusholme the stop by where Edinburgh Bicycle used to be (by the south end of Whitworth Park) was used; for the other end the southernmost university stop (the one by the union) is nearby.

For any others there is of course a quality connection at Fallowfield, obviously in a regulated system through ticketing would be there anyway.
 

Dentonian

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I assume you mean the MRI? That could be the Rusholme stop (for that end of it), if for Rusholme the stop by where Edinburgh Bicycle used to be (by the south end of Whitworth Park) was used; for the other end the southernmost university stop (the one by the union) is nearby.

For any others there is of course a quality connection at Fallowfield, obviously in a regulated system through ticketing would be there anyway.
Just a gentle reminder that the I in MRI means Infirmary and there is already a considerable walk from Outpatients and all clinic s to the existing stops outside the front of the hospital. And whilst there might be a quality connection inbound. It's no good for waiting 29 mins stood at busy poorly sheltered stops on the way home.
 

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"Marston Vale mafia"
Just a gentle reminder that the I in MRI means Infirmary and there is already a considerable walk from Outpatients and all clinic s to the existing stops outside the front of the hospital. And whilst there might be a quality connection inbound. It's no good for waiting 29 mins stood at busy poorly sheltered stops on the way home.

Another option would be *not* to serve the Student Union stop, and instead to serve the one you mention (by WP residences) plus the "Precinct Centre" stop.
 
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