Greengauge 21: Beyond HS2

[HSTEd]

It isn’t that easy. Remember that Crossrail 2 relieves the main suburban side only, P1-P6. The Windsor - Reading side service group will still be using P19 and the 5 international platforms. That side is currently a 10 car railway, except for a few 12 car platforms. If the hypothetical long trains that people are proposing are arriving on the main line side where CR2 has made space, they must head for the main station.

Can't we just shunt everyone over towards the side where CR2 has made space?
The reconstruction necessary to make the platforms work is probably still going to be cheaper than a wholely underground five 400m platform station, which is the alternative.

 

[swt_passenger]

Can't we just shunt everyone over towards the side where CR2 has made space?
The reconstruction necessary to make the platforms work is probably still going to be cheaper than a wholely underground five 400m platform station, which is the alternative.

No, because the width of the approach viaduct is the constraint on platform length. That’s why P1-P6 were limited to 10 car, and most of the rest standardised at 12 car. So you either need to extend beyond the buffers, wrecking the level concourse, or you demolish outside the south side of the viaduct to widen it. But that latter possibility also needs to solve the problem of a significant curve...

 

[HSTEd]

No, because the width of the approach viaduct is the constraint on platform length. That’s why P1-P6 were limited to 10 car, and most of the rest standardised at 12 car. So you either need to extend beyond the buffers, wrecking the level concourse, or you demolish outside the south side of the viaduct to widen it. But that latter possibility also needs to solve the problem of a significant curve...

Is a level concourse that much of a benefit though?
I mean sure, it looks nice, but if we can always just expand the mezzanine deck to make up the lost circulating space, the cost of widening the viaduct or providing a new station is going to be so enormous that I can't see the BCR for it staying coming out very good.

(EDIT: The alternative might be in a crazy world to terminate Charing Cross trains at Waterloo East, then Blackfrairs-ify Charing Cross and try and sqeeuze a ramp into the alignment between the south side of the river and the start of Waterloo East platforms, but that net Sacrifices two platforms)

 

[swt_passenger]

Is a level concourse that much of a benefit though?
I mean sure, it looks nice, but if we can always just expand the mezzanine deck to make up the lost circulating space, the cost of widening the viaduct or providing a new station is going to be so enormous that I can't see the BCR for it staying coming out very good.

(EDIT: The alternative might be in a crazy world to terminate Charing Cross trains at Waterloo East, then Blackfrairs-ify Charing Cross and try and sqeeuze a ramp into the alignment between the south side of the river and the start of Waterloo East platforms, but that net Sacrifices two platforms)

I really think the basic reasoning for this, of South coast via Brighton to Waterloo, is so unlikely there’s little point in even discussing the problems of providing a terminus for it...

 

[The Ham]

Is a level concourse that much of a benefit though?
I mean sure, it looks nice, but if we can always just expand the mezzanine deck to make up the lost circulating space, the cost of widening the viaduct or providing a new station is going to be so enormous that I can't see the BCR for it staying coming out very good.

The other option, which could help with passenger flows, would be to provide a low level (under the platforms) concourse by removing the brick arches. As such the buffer stops could move further into the current concourse area.

This would have the advantage of improving passenger flows from the lower level underground gate line which currently comes up the escalator next to McDonald's.

It could even allow access to the mid platform tunnel to further improve passenger flows (assuming that tunnel was in use for more of the time).

Yes it would be disruptive to do, as the platforms would probably need to be closed, but could be done between the opening of Crossrail 2 and before additional services were added to Waterloo from the SWML.

The problem would be that there would be some who would get over excited and would say that it would be destroying Waterloo.