Group Save

[clagmonster]

Avantix shows group save 3 and group save 4 returns between Grimsby and Nottingham, route any permitted, same restrictions as a cheap day return.
Trainline based booking engines also show this ticket, however they only show it as available when using EMT services via Lincoln. All other ticket types are correctly shown as available using other operators services via Sheffield. On the National Rail and WebTis based websites the group save is not shown at all. Is the Trainline correct in only showing the ticket as valid via Lincoln, ar as I suspect it is doing valid on EMT services only? The one piece of evidence in favour of the Trainline being wrong is condition 10 of the conditions of carriage:
"10. Tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies
The validity of a ticket may:
a) be restricted to; or
b) prohibit
travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction
or prohibition will be shown on the ticket."
If the ticket is valid only on EMT, surely it would be routed EMT only on Avantix rather than Any Permitted. Am I missing something in the groupsave terms and conditions, which is quite likely because I have never purchased or used a group save ticket before. Thanks in advance for any gen.

 

[royaloak]

Groupsave is a Stagecoach ticket so is only valid on their franchises, ie EMT and SWT.

 

[mumrar]

Edit : just be me to it Royaloak

 

[royaloak]

Sorry Boss but its about the only thing I know about tickets

 

[87015]

Groupsave is a Stagecoach ticket so is only valid on their franchises, ie EMT and SWT.

Plenty of non-Stagecoach TOCs do it aswell, its not just a Stagecoach thing. Presumably as he is talking about Notts-Sheffield Northern aren't one of them.

 

[royaloak]

Are they called Groupsave or are they similar tickets with different names and are they valid on other operators?

 

[Pumbaa]

They're called Groupsave, not every TOC does them though, and some of them only on certain routes eg fSR Edin - Glasgow only. Most ex-NSE TOCs do them, along with EMT, fTPE.

 

[tony_mac]

Although the tickets don't have any TOC restrictions printed on them, the guard on the train may disagree.
I have seen an XC guard say that they don't accept groupsave tickets.

Obviously, condition 10 doesn't agree with that, but I would be prepared to have a discussion about it.

 

[Pumbaa]

As far as I was aware, XC didn't accept Groupsave.

 

[tony_mac]

yes - but if the ticket is on a valid route, and no restriction is printed on the ticket, what grounds do they have for refusing to accept it?

 

[Pumbaa]

yes - but if the ticket is on a valid route, and no restriction is printed on the ticket, what grounds do they have for refusing to accept it?

Ah my apologies! I see - would be interesting to try and test that case.

 

[fgwoll1e]

GroupSave is like using a railcard, it's a promotional thing, it comes with conditions, and one of those conditions would be operators that will not accept it. XC being one of them.

 

[barrykas]

Just to muddy the waters, GroupSave is a DISCOUNT rather than a ticket type...except on EMT!

EMT GroupSave is only valid on flows which show a ticket type of GR3 (for 3 passengers) and GR4 (for 4 passengers), of which Grimsby - Nottingham is one.

If you travel on a TOC that doesn't accept GroupSave (which is most of them, other than the Network Area TOCs, EMT and ScotRail {between Edinburgh and Glasgow Queen Street only}), you'd be liable to purchase a brand new ticket IIRC.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[royaloak]

When the XC train is dispayed on the CIS at Southampton or Basingstoke it specifically states groupsave is not valid.

 

[yorkie]

GroupSave is only available where the flow is set by a TOC that participates. It's a mess - like many things on the railway.

Unless the ticket is specifically routed as not valid on a specific TOC, or only valid on a specific TOC, it can be used on any TOC on a permitted route as per the National Conditions of Carriage.

Tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies
The validity of a ticket may:
a) be restricted to; or
b) prohibit
travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction or prohibition will be shown on the ticket.

No, not in small print. SHOWN ON THE TICKET.

If it was up to me, I'd abolish GroupSave, Duo and similar but different discount types. I would replace all railcards with one railcard with common conditions. The same minimum fare for all, the same discount rate, the same restrictions, but the price you pay for the railcard varies depending on circumstance (disabled free, 16-25 £20, over 60 £20, jobseekers £20, anyone else £a higher amount to be decided). That would be true simplification.

 

[clagmonster]

Thanks everyone for the information.
Pumbaa, which routes do TPE issue Groupsave tickets on, as I have never come across any advertising of them.
I see that the intention, as I thought, is for the ticket to be valid on EMT services only. As this is the case, surely it would be perfectly simple, put theticket in line with the conditions of carriage, and make it easier to understand for the ticket to be routed EMT only, rather than any permitted. I think it is a good idea on the Southern Region to have on the platform information screens for cross country departures to display the fact that group save tickets are not valid, but why not issue them as route 'not XC' rather than any permitted. The EMT website only does not give the terms and conditions, and the groupsave website only gives details about the former NSE area. When going through the TPE booking system, the ticket restrictions state: "Available on ScotRail services only" which is clearly nonsense.

 

[yorkie]

. When going through the TPE booking system, the ticket restrictions state: "Available on ScotRail services only" which is clearly nonsense.

Indeed. There is a lot of nonsense when it comes to railway ticketing!

 

[barrykas]

Indeed. There is a lot of nonsense when it comes to railway ticketing!

Never a truer word spoken...And then people wonder why even Ticket Office staff get confused!