Groupsave - TOC Restricted?

[trainJam]

For example, take Birmingham New Street to Crewe.

Are groupsave discounted tickets valid only on West Midlands Railway?

What would happen if the group boarded a CrossCountry or Avanti service? Excess, new ticket, Penalty Fare or report for investigation/prosecutions?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

You will be asked to pay the difference between the price of your discounted Ticket and the full price Standard fare (or the Penalty Fare if travelling in a Penalty Fare area) if:

a) you travel beyond the station for which your Ticket is issued;
b) you travel on a train operated by a company other than those listed in
condition 6; or
c) you travel on a route for which a higher fare applies or at a time when reduced
fares do not apply.

Groupsave Terms and Conditions | National Rail

The gateway to Britain's National Rail network. A portal into UK rail travel including train company information and promotions; train times; fares enquiries; ticket purchase and train running information

www.nationalrail.co.uk

However, if you did it deliberately, intentionally travelling on an incorrect TOC, for example, after your ticket had been endorsed by a ticket office to make these restrictions clear, you could be prosecuted under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

And yes, only valid on West Midlands - not Avanti or XC.

If you used Transport for Wales, without changing trains on to another operator somewhere along the way, you could be issued a Penalty Fare.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Another good example is East Midlands Railway which has a Groupsave ticket type, not a discount type, which in the past has caused issues where an unsuspecting booking clerk might add a groupsave discount to a ticket which isn't allowed, eg Norwich to Nottingham SVR. This has now been removed so that fares shouldn't be able to be discounted in this manner.

 

[trainJam]

Thanks all.

 

[OscarH]

Another good example is East Midlands Railway which has a Groupsave ticket type, not a discount type, which in the past has caused issues where an unsuspecting booking clerk might add a groupsave discount to a ticket which isn't allowed, eg Norwich to Nottingham SVR. This has now been removed so that fares shouldn't be able to be discounted in this manner.

Yeah, groupsave is absolute insanity. If people actually cared about simplifying fares this is the kind of low hanging fruit that they should look at, unify everyone to accept and use the GS3 discount

 

[Wallsendmag]

Another good example is East Midlands Railway which has a Groupsave ticket type, not a discount type, which in the past has caused issues where an unsuspecting booking clerk might add a groupsave discount to a ticket which isn't allowed, eg Norwich to Nottingham SVR. This has now been removed so that fares shouldn't be able to be discounted in this manner.

EMR and ScotRail Groupsave are a nightmare to try and add to a TVM, no chance for a passenger to guess what you need to enter to buy one.

 

[OscarH]

ENR and ScotRail Groupsave are a nightmare to try and add to a TVM, no chance for a passenger to guess what you need to enter to buy one.

LNER using a different railcard code is a nightmare for auto groupsave for journey planners too

 

[Wallsendmag]

LNER using a different railcard code is a nightmare for auto groupsave for journey planners too

LNER don't participate in or allow Groupsave discounts on their services

 

[talldave]

ENR and ScotRail Groupsave are a nightmare to try and add to a TVM, no chance for a passenger to guess what you need to enter to buy one.

It's a real shame because Groupsave is the sort of feature that travellers may not know about and the TVM can make suggestions to save them money (obviously double checking that they're sticking together). E.g. "upgrading" a child to an adult in order to get a Groupsave discount, which hardly anyone would think of unprompted.

 

[OscarH]

LNER don't participate in or allow Groupsave discounts on their services

Sorry yes, it's called something slightly different, and discounts a smaller amount and only advance tickets. It's the same principle though

 

[JonathanH]

If people actually cared about simplifying fares this is the kind of low hanging fruit that they should look at, unify everyone to accept and use the GS3 discount

Groupsave is intended for short distance travel where there is a bit of spare capacity, not journeys on the longer distance operators.

There have to be some restrictions placed on offers such as groupsave to reflect the realities of where the railway has the capacity to provide such offers and not cannibalise its revenue.

 

[John R]

Groupsave is intended for short distance travel where there is a bit of spare capacity, not journeys on the longer distance operators.

But it’s valid from London to Penzance (sleeper service excepted).

 

[JonathanH]

But it’s valid from London to Penzance (sleeper service excepted).

Yes, it is a bit of an oddity that GWR participate on all their services and not just the local routes. I guess it is more straightforward for the other intercity operators not to participate. (EMR don't allow travel into London.)

I recall at one stage back in FGW days, it would be barred for travel into London on any days when there was a Premier League football match taking place, but they don't seem to do that now.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Yes, it is a bit of an oddity that GWR participate on all their services and not just the local routes. I guess it is more straightforward for the other intercity operators not to participate. (EMR don't allow travel into London.)

I suspect it's in the "too difficult" bucket to bar GroupSave on GWR's long-distance flows but keep it on London & South East and regional ones.