Growing Rail Freight

[cinders&ashes]

First time article poster, be gentle .

https://www.railengineer.co.uk/growing-rail-freight/

Interesting article concerning options to increase/improve rail freight. On electrification, the point is made that:

the only way to run the longer, heavier freight trains that are essential for rail freight growth as electric locomotives have typically twice the power of a diesel locomotive (electric class 92 – 5MW, diesel class 66 – 2.2 MW)

My bumbling amateur question is this: if electric with twice the power allows long and heavier trains, would it also therefore allow trains of the same size/weight as their diesel peers to travel at much higher speeds? If so, wouldn't this also solve some of the congestion issues on the mainlines? Even if they didn't travel at high speed, going faster than at present (and with no stations to stop at either) should mean less traffic issues and need for looping etc.

 

[D365]

From my [limited] understanding of vehicle dynamics, it’s speeds above 75mph when the sway and aerodynamics of freight wagons become critical factors.

 

[The Planner]

First time article poster, be gentle .

https://www.railengineer.co.uk/growing-rail-freight/

Interesting article concerning options to increase/improve rail freight. On electrification, the point is made that:

My bumbling amateur question is this: if electric with twice the power allows long and heavier trains, would it also therefore allow trains of the same size/weight as their diesel peers to travel at much higher speeds? If so, wouldn't this also solve some of the congestion issues on the mainlines? Even if they didn't travel at high speed, going faster than at present (and with no stations to stop at either) should mean less traffic issues and need for looping etc.

No, until the ability to run containers above 75mph is sorted. Electric freight will run faster though as it can accelerate quicker and keep speeds up gradients.

 

[cinders&ashes]

No, until the ability to run containers above 75mph is sorted. Electric freight will run faster though as it can accelerate quicker and keep speeds up gradients.

Thanks - do they tend to hit those top speeds of 75mph even with diesel traction?

 

[The Planner]

Thanks - do they tend to hit those top speeds of 75mph even with diesel traction?

Yes, relatively easily on the flat and shallower gradients. Clearly the steeper the gradient and heavier trains reduces that.

 

[Rail Quest]

The article makes for an interesting read but I think this quote perhaps may be a little miss leaded as to the current restrictions on length perhaps?

the only way to run the longer, heavier freight trains that are essential for rail freight growth as electric locomotives have typically twice the power of a diesel locomotive (electric class 92 – 5MW, diesel class 66 – 2.2 MW)

I was under the impression that the maximum length freight trains can be in the UK currently is purely limited by lengths of looping points and the likes but I'm happy to be corrected on that. I would assume that locomotives like the 70s would be more than capable of hauling longer container trains than they're currently limited to.

 

[Robin Procter]

I see double-headed Class66 on long trains fairly often. Also Class70s seem very capable judging by the number of wagons. I have counted as many as 42.

But if the use of electric locomotives increases the length of trains and therefore increases the weight, will track maintenance need to be significantly increased?

 

[berwicksfinest]

Yes, relatively easily on the flat and shallower gradients. Clearly the steeper the gradient and heavier trains reduces that.

Really, will you tell my 66 then, I can count on one hand the amount of time Ive even managed over 70 !!!!

 

[The Planner]

Really, will you tell my 66 then, I can count on one hand the amount of time Ive even managed over 70 !!!!

What services, as if the running times were wrong we would be getting the delay minutes.

 

[berwicksfinest]

Any Liner service we do to Felixstowe, and empty Plasmor service.

All 4 speeds

But bear in mind although 4 speeds, most services are timed less than that

 

[geoffk]

Channel 4 News has just had a feature on rail freight, including an interview with Freightliner boss Tim Shoveller. He was in the cab of a Southampton - Coatbridge service. Tim referred to a "missing" 60 miles of wiring which could greatly increase electric haulage but it wasn't clear what lines he was referring to. We saw the class 66 loco replaced by a pair of 90s at Crewe but there was no mention of the high electricity price discouraging the rail freight industry's use of electric traction. It was pointed out that few if any major flows were electrified end to end. Finally the need for a level playing field between rail and road was stressed. Anyway it was good to see this issue featuring on a national news programme.

 

[Rail Quest]

He was in the cab of a Southampton - Coatbridge service. Tim referred to a "missing" 60 miles of wiring which could greatly increase electric haulage but it wasn't clear what lines he was referring to.

Hmm, perhaps I'm getting five by adding two and two together here, but given the service he's on, perhaps he's referring to Coventry to Didcot + Reading West to Southampton? (would have thought that was more than 60 miles though)

If not, then I'd assume he's talking about the sum of Felixstowe, London Gateway and other strategic lines with missing wires.

 

[geoffk]

Hmm, perhaps I'm getting five by adding two and two together here, but given the service he's on, perhaps he's referring to Coventry to Didcot + Reading West to Southampton? (would have thought that was more than 60 miles though)

If not, then I'd assume he's talking about the sum of Felixstowe, London Gateway and other strategic lines with missing wires.

More likely Felixstowe etc. I expect. This is the link.

Why is the UK not exploiting technology for net zero trains?

About 70 percent of them are then moved by road, using cheaper, polluting diesel lorries - not the cleaner rail network. If the freight train is electric, the journey is virtually carbon free.

www.channel4.com

 

[hwl]

Hmm, perhaps I'm getting five by adding two and two together here, but given the service he's on, perhaps he's referring to Coventry to Didcot + Reading West to Southampton? (would have thought that was more than 60 miles though)

If not, then I'd assume he's talking about the sum of Felixstowe, London Gateway and other strategic lines with missing wires.

3 gaps (excluding 3rd rail) on Southampton Coatbridge:

Didcot - Coventry is 61.5 route miles - which is probably the gap he is referring to

Basingstoke - Southcote Jn is 13 route miles

Coventry - Nuneaton is 8.5 route miles

 

[Robin Procter]

Does it really matter precisely which electric line gap was being referred to? The principle remains the same.

There is an awareness of the benefits of improved efficiencies but it actually happening within a desirable timeframe is in reality just a dream, in my opinion.

It would need a comprehensive TV documentary rather than a relatively short news article to cover the various aspects and future plans with any accuracy.

 

[Rail Quest]

Does it really matter precisely which electric line gap was being referred to? The principle remains the same.

There is an awareness of the benefits of improved efficiencies but it actually happening within a desirable timeframe is in reality just a dream, in my opinion.

It would need a comprehensive TV documentary rather than a relatively short news article to cover the various aspects and future plans with any accuracy.

Fair enough point honestly. In which case, I imagine its indeed going to come down to GBRf proving/disproving whether the use of bi-mode freight locomotives is a satisfactory alternative, generally speaking, to these electric gaps. This Class 99 project is certainly going to be one for the history books...

 

[geoffk]

On my recent trip to Switzerland I saw a number of the older classes still in use on freight traffic - class 420 (formerly Re4/4) built from the late 1960s, and 620 (Re6/6) built from 1972. There is of course plenty of work for them. In contrast BR and its successors have not found it worthwhile keeping older electric locos in service, many finding work in eastern Europe, while DB cites economic pressures and high running costs for withdrawal of its class 90 fleet, built 1987-90.

 

[Phil9002]

Re 420 and 620 are simple locos, and they tend to last far longer than 'modern' locos which become dated quickly. Locos like the ÖBB 1012/1014/1822 had very short lives compared to older locos in the fleet. 90s (and similarly 92s) are locos full of outdated electronics that have a finite spares pool, reverse engineering parts can be incredibly expensive and time consuming. The locos DB is scrapping now are all long-stored examples with very little left to give, it'd cost ridiculous sums to return them to working order. The withdrawal of the remaining 90 fleet was thanks to both DB's dwindling work and the ridiculous energy costs at the time, it was simply cheaper per-mile to run a 66 than a 90.

 

[43096]

On my recent trip to Switzerland I saw a number of the older classes still in use on freight traffic - class 420 (formerly Re4/4) built from the late 1960s, and 620 (Re6/6) built from 1972. There is of course plenty of work for them. In contrast BR and its successors have not found it worthwhile keeping older electric locos in service, many finding work in eastern Europe, while DB cites economic pressures and high running costs for withdrawal of its class 90 fleet, built 1987-90.

There’s a big difference, though: Switzerland is all but 100% electrified.

Locos like the ÖBB 1012/1014/1822 had very short lives compared to older locos in the fleet.

Those fleets are not typical, though, being either prototype batches (1012 - 3 locos, 1822 - 5 locos) or small in number (1014 - 18 locos) and easily replaced once the 282 ES64U2 Taurus locos were available.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Does it really matter precisely which electric line gap was being referred to? The principle remains the same.

It matters! It gives us an insight into the future plans for rail freight.

Although I make it as just 40 Miles - Didcot to Milton Keynes via the shortest "missing link". Not only is it shorter, but probably closest to being knitting-ready.

 

[Class15]

It matters! It gives us an insight into the future plans for rail freight.

Although I make it as just 40 Miles - Didcot to Milton Keynes via the shortest "missing link". Not only is it shorter, but probably closest to being knitting-ready.

Of course, if Acton Bank and the Acton Canal Wharf - Willesden No 7 chords were done, Southampton freight could even be sent that way?

 

[The Planner]

Of course, if Acton Bank and the Acton Canal Wharf - Willesden No 7 chords were done, Southampton freight could even be sent that way?

No chance, relief lines just dont have the capacity.