• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Guildford Platform 0 Proposal by NR

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,439
Could well become redundant though - if the NR plans for 3 additional through platforms go ahead. Perhaps the logic is that it frees up the existing platform 2 for through trains.
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
6,253
Location
Torbay
Could well become redundant though - if the NR plans for 3 additional through platforms go ahead. Perhaps the logic is that it frees up the existing platform 2 for through trains.

I guess Portsmouth trains would routinely be able to use #2 with Gatwicks swinging over from Reading to #4 leaving #6/#7 free more of the time and reducing subsequent conflict at the south junction. The up main overlap at the north end looks like it must conflict with the crossover move however, preventing the Reading to #4 move at the same time as an up arrival to #5. That could be mitigated by doubling the junction at the north end, adding two extra left hand crossovers, thereby also providing some additional parallel moves impossible today including a departure from #6/7 to Reading at the same time as an arrival from Reading to #4. With #2 becoming the dominant down platform, #3 would be better placed to be the reversing platform for local terminators from the Woking direction (including Heathrow Southern perhaps?). The layout doesn't allow this easily today with only a tortuous conflicting route via the up main. Swapping the left hand crossover at the London end of #2/#3 for a right hand one could improve that. #3 would also retain its specialist role as a filter to get up Portsmouth trains onto the New Line. It's function in this respect will be improved, as an up arrival to #3 would not conflict with a typical down arrival to #2, nor its subsequent departure towards Portsmouth. Fast trains from London usually arriving on #2 will likely be popular with many alighting punters, avoiding having to cross over the bridge for an exit to the street, and the greater footfall might justify improved railside retail and refreshment alongside the platform, as part of the station reconstruction. With these additional measures, it looks like a good scheme, more beneficial than (say) a couple of extra terminal platforms over on the west side. Some additional facilities over there might still be needed eventually as well of course. Squeezing the throat junction in for the new #0 looks tight, with recently constructed apartments at the end of the car park just the other side of a narrow access road. Lengthening #1 to full 12x20m to match the new #0 would also be a sensible option. The station reconstruction might offer scope to place new bufferstops for both further south, to achieve this without significant widening in the throat area. As justified at Reading, while the New Line terminating traffic will presumably remain typically 10x20m car maximum, strategic provision for longer trains in the New Line bays at a fairly modest cost would safeguard the space from further encroachment and avoid rework to provide the extra length in future.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,810
I think you can run a up Potsmouth / Woking into #6 at the same time as a Reading / Gatwick uses #4. That basically solves your conflict. Use #5 for terminating Aldershot services.
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
6,253
Location
Torbay
I think you can run a up Potsmouth / Woking into #6 at the same time as a Reading / Gatwick uses #4. That basically solves your conflict. Use #5 for terminating Aldershot services.

Yes that would work. The only objection is the Aldershot would then have to cross the path of the Woking on departure. Probably not a big problem though, resulting in the slackly timed Aldershot usually waiting for the Woking to get out of the way, thus safeguarding connections.
 

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
10,326
Could well become redundant though - if the NR plans for 3 additional through platforms go ahead. Perhaps the logic is that it frees up the existing platform 2 for through trains.

Although it could become redundant (or at least needed less) going forward it does give flexibility whilst the works are done for the three new platforms are built.

Out of interest there's loads of open edge stickers at Guildford which look like surveyors marks and there's been a lot of drone activity over the station in recent weeks, which I would guess (and I may have for to five here) means that NR has been getting some decent information on layouts. Which maybe contributing to help design any new layouts.
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
5,851
I think you can run a up Potsmouth / Woking into #6 at the same time as a Reading / Gatwick uses #4. That basically solves your conflict. Use #5 for terminating Aldershot services.
It's quite common at present for a Portsmouth-Waterloo service to be altered to use Platform 6 when there is a potential conflict with a Reading-Gatwick service due to late running. At Off Peak times there is enough spare capacity to allow the signallers to use the layout to help deal with delays, but it doesn't work quite so well in the peak with more services running.
 

ijmad

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2016
Messages
1,810
Location
UK
Slightly OT, but why does Guildford often appear as Guildford (Surrey)?

There are no other Guildfords in the UK and no other railway stations called Guildford as far as I'm aware?
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
6,253
Location
Torbay
My ideas for Guildford, ultimate edition. Portsmouth to left, London and Reading / Aldershot to right.
guildford.jpg
Typical usage:
#0, #1 - New line terminators
#2 - Down to Portsmouth from Woking or New Line
#3, #4 - Woking terminators
#5, #6 - Up from Portsmouth, Down from Reading (both bi-di and usage interchangeable according to real time conflicts*)
#7, #8 - Reading / Aldershot terminators
#9, #10 - Up to Reading

* - #5, #6 can accept arrivals from any incoming line and dispatch to any outgoing as required.

New Line terminators can also get across to and back from #3, #4
Woking terminators can also get across to and back from #7, #8, also #8, #9
 

Shalford

Member
Joined
4 Jan 2018
Messages
9
Guildford has many challenges, including a possible virtual doubling, if all the current ideas come to fruition, of train movements (including 6 TPH Portsmouth, 4TPH North Downs, 2TPH to Heathrow, increased New Line Services , Woking Stoppers,etc.).

Platform 0 is almost within the footprint of the proposed Solum redevelopment (under planning appeal at present) of the east town side entrance to the station. The Solum plan is like others from this developer basically a development of commercial/housing units with limited benefits to the railway e.g. a very small booking hall is proposed for Guildford. No clear plans have been published by Solum to show how platform 0 can be accommodated.

The map posted by Marky T misses one point - there is a lot of discussion about Heathrow services (part of Runway 3 approval) which will require terminating platforms at the station, and consideration of passenger circulation as it will be a major traffic generator. I would propose terminating platforms need to be between the main north/south running lines to make for operationally robust services, this would mean northbound services using platforms more to the west side of the station layout. The ability of northbound services to access, as they leave the tunnels, platforms to the west of the layout is constrained by car park and access road to car park, at present curvature is approaching the maximum desirable.

Guildford Station with its network of connections including both Heathrow and Gatwick needs to be viewed as a transport hub with proper integration of transport modes including buses. Network rail have land holdings to the east and west of the station that if properly considered in totality would allow this interchange to be created, as well as replacing ageing road infrastructure that crosses the railway.

Network Rail need to have a strategic look, now, at what the station will look like in 15-20 years time and ensure railway land is preserved for use by the operational railway, identify how curvature issues from the south can be mitigated, and look at creating a proper transport hub. Network Rail are in danger of being distracted by the short term gains from a series of property developments, rather than ensuring Guildford Station is made fit for the 21st century.

Finally, Guildford might be a candidate for a flyover to bring the Reading line across the Woking line at the north of the station -- with only minor land take this is achievable. This would reduce conflicts between the main line and increased services on the North Downs corridor and opens up the provision of cross Guildford services on the east west axis (this would link the proposed Guildford West and East Stations currently being discussed).
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,439
The recent Wessex route study suggests that NR already have taken a strategic look. That’s how it reads to me...
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,669
It is stated platform 0 is needed operationally in the short term. What regular or less regular business very problematic issues occur because it doesn't exist? If they need it for the proposed timetable in December, and surely not, they wouldn't have it built in time.

If they run additional services through Guildford, beyond those proposed to run in Dec 2018 then I can see it's usefulness

In terms of the North Downs Line though, thought it wasn't possible to run additional. North Downs Line trains due to the level crossing at Reigate. If that remains the cause they might not need it. Of course they could run more services solely between Guildford and Reading but I imagine the bigger interest would be being able to o reach Gatwick.

Currently I find there are times when the Reading and/or Waterloo services can get held up by each other if one is late. However this is at Peasmarsh Junction rather than solely at the station.

Heading south however trains from Reading booked into platform 4 can get held up if a Portsmouth bound train is late.

I do find when trains need to be held at Guildford they use platform 6 and the other trains use platform 8. I did once get delayed by a Network Rail train have priority but I can't remember whether having an additional platform would have helped in that case.
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,669
I must add that in recent times I've had larger delays due to terminating trains shunting at Effingham Junction than through trains at Guildford. That should get resolved in December when trains no longer terminate at Effingham Junction. If it could remove conflict between up and down trains using the Guildford New Line then that will be good. A few minutes delay due to a late inbound service isn't unheard of.

As for Woking terminator idea, the proposed timetable from South Western Railway doesn't seem to include many if any Woking stopping services running to Guildford. Whether they would consider it or even have the slack in the timetable for them to run to Guildford is another matter.
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
6,253
Location
Torbay
Here is a visualisation of the usage of different platforms at Guildford in my layout. Note trains terminating from the Woking direction do so between the through platforms typically used for Portsmouth - London services.
guiildford2.jpg
 

Shalford

Member
Joined
4 Jan 2018
Messages
9
Thanks for the comments on my post. A key point is that the rail strategy is I believe 2015 and has little detail of what would happen to Guildford though there was a draft fuller layout posted by NR at one stage. The key issue is to ensure the Station operational footprint is preserved to a sufficient width to allow for foreseeable growth.

Since 2015 the plans for Heathrow do seem to have become more to the fore. Woking Terminators were described as moving to a turn back related to the Woking flyover or maybe Guildford.

As regards the issues with the Reigate Level Crossing causing difficulties with frequency increases. On option could be to reverse stoppers at Betchworth - not ideal but at least boosts frequency for most of the stops Dorking to Guildford and beyond. An alternative would be for fasts to catch slows at Deepdene and join up to limit movements through Reigate, with a corresponding split in the reverse direction
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,439
...As for Woking terminator idea, the proposed timetable from South Western Railway doesn't seem to include many if any Woking stopping services running to Guildford. Whether they would consider it or even have the slack in the timetable for them to run to Guildford is another matter.
As I’ve pointed out before, the current consultation is purely about the timetable that can be run on the current infrastructure.
Woking grade separation, (if it happens as described in the Wessex Route Study), allows for either a turnback siding on the Portsmouth Line, or for more terminating trains at Guildford, but whatever happens it is for the medium term future, not Dec 2018.
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,669
As I’ve pointed out before, the current consultation is purely about the timetable that can be run on the current infrastructure.
Woking grade separation, (if it happens as described in the Wessex Route Study), allows for either a turnback siding on the Portsmouth Line, or for more terminating trains at Guildford, but whatever happens it is for the medium term future, not Dec 2018.
I was thinking more in terms of the fact trains on a Sunday currently terminate at Guildford but if I remember correctly, they won't in the near future. Although just reading the consultation document again, it seems the terminators will go to Guildford on Sundays but only before 13:00 and not after. So I was incorrect. I assume after 13:00 more Portsmouth services run so they don't see the need.
 

rf_ioliver

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
868
'GetSurrey' is easily the worst local news source I have ever seen in the UK - I wouldn't have any confidence in their stories!

Really...I remember when they were talking about the reopening of the Cranleigh branch in the next few years (that was 1994) ....

And
gordonthemoron King's Cross does have a platform 9 3/4, I guess that being a muggle you wouldn't know that .... sorry, said too much, anyway there's a good series of documentaries about it and the school children who have to use it for their commute, interesting stuff...

t.

Ian
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top