GWML Relief Lines

[Please Explain]

The reason why the GWML Relief Lines are called 'Relief' rather than 'Slow' Lines?

Also the 'Atlantic' Lines at Brixton?

Apologies, I only speak Austrian. Danke You.

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"Staff must not cross the line to the Emu depot"

 

[jfollows]

It's not a stupid question at all.

It goes back, sometime to pre-1921, to the way the railway companies at the time referred to their lines.

So you get main/relief on the Great Western, through/local on the LSWR, fast/slow on the LNWR. And so on. The names persisted and remain today on the different routes.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-london-line-the-atlantic-lines.61050/ to your second question. But apparently named after Atlantic Road which you can see in the attached map.

 

[StephenHunter]

Another interesting case is the GEML from Shenfield to Liverpool Street, where the slow lines are still known as the Electric lines despite all four tracks being wired as they were the ones wired first for the suburban services that were planned under LNER and ultimately started under BR(E).

 

[JN114]

They were built fairly peicemeal, as required to “relieve” the main lines, which until more modern times traffic would use by default, except where capacity forced slower trains onto the reliefs to make way. Line speeds on plain straight track were initially comparable, but have risen significantly on the mains while staying slower on the reliefs over the past 50 years or so since mechanical signalling was dispensed with.

Modern timetables see their use split more along fast/slow lines, however overnight even when all 4 lines are open the majority of traffic including some very slow/heavy freights are timetabled to use the mains where practical.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

A chance to ask: What were/are the 'widened lines'?

 

[Bald Rick]

A chance to ask: What were/are the 'widened lines'?

From When the Metropolitan between King’s Cross and Farringdon was widened from 2 tracks to 4, three years after it opened.

 

[swt_passenger]

A chance to ask: What were/are the 'widened lines'?

An early four tracking scheme between St Pancras and Farringdon. The lines now used by Thameslink were effectively a capacity improvement alongside the Metropolitan. Hence the name Metropolitan widened lines”...

 

[StephenHunter]

Although the Widened Lines were accessed via King's Cross York Road, IIRC.

 

[Bald Rick]

Although the Widened Lines were accessed via King's Cross York Road, IIRC.

Yes, but in 1866 there were connections between them at Kings Cross.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A particular favourite of mine in the Cardiff area , was the "Down electric loop" - it was the first track circuited piece of track in the area , circa 1900. Nicknames stick for decades.

Names for sidings even more interesting - "the Klondyke" at Neasden (Met) , built in the year of the 1897 Goldrush , "The Dardanalles" at Didcot around WW1 , "The Worcester" in Ipswich Lower Yard , where for many years a fully fitted freight for that city was assembled and despatched from. Many others. i

 

[SuspectUsual]

Names for sidings even more interesting - "the Klondyke" at Neasden (Met) ,

Is it Edinburgh where there’s also a Klondike siding?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it Edinburgh where there’s also a Klondike siding?

One of a couple of dozen around the country, I think. I don’t think there’s much originality about it.

 

[30907]

It's not a stupid question at all.

It goes back, sometime to pre-1921, to the way the railway companies at the time referred to their lines.

So you get main/relief on the Great Western, through/local on the LSWR, fast/slow on the LNWR. And so on. The names persisted and remain today on the different routes.

Fast/slow is the most common, I think (the Central and South Eastern divisions of the SR both used them in contrast to the SW).
Main/local is an unusual one, but Shortlands to Bickley before 1959 had that.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Don’t forget the ‘Rhubarb Loop’ at Bristol!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Or the Speedway at Laira.

 

[Nym]

LT / LUL Also uses Main and Local.

 

[midland1]

On the Midland it was Passenger and Goods lines, passenger trains were not normally allowed on the goods lines as they used a simplified for of permissive block called telegraph block.

 

[Senex]

On the Midland it was Passenger and Goods lines, passenger trains were not normally allowed on the goods lines as they used a simplified for of permissive block called telegraph block.

Generally true, but not completely. The sort of additional facilities provided reflected that company's traffic, so the great majority of them were indeed goods lines with the simplified signalling, and a very high proportion of these really for the coal traffic for the south (which, in terms of the current electrification, was also responsible for the decision to go for the deviation with the tunnel at Sharnbrook to keep the southbound ruling gradient down). But right from the start some of the additional lines were also used for passenger traffic, and they were designated "slow lines". The first example of this I have seen reference to is the section between Kettering Junction and Glendon North Junction, part of the widening between Wellingborough and Glendon that was completed at the end of the 1870s. The 1 February 1880 Appendix to the WTT uses the terms "fast lines" and slow lines" to describe this, as opposed to "passenger lines" and "goods lines" elsewhere. (The L&NW seems to have been a few years earlier with the use of "slow lines".)

 

[swt_passenger]

References in earlier posts to the LSWR as having “through and local” lines are surely only historic, although the way they’re written suggests the terms are still in use?

But it’s all described in conventional fast and slow terms nowadays on the various four track sections. At least in the sectional appendix it is. I suspect it formally changed in one of the major resignallings.

With the addition of main and Windsor as prefixes in the Waterloo - Clapham Jn section of course, and a few bits of relief in the immediate vicinity of Waterloo itself.

 

[zwk500]

Outside the former GWR, Relief tends to be a 3rd Line designation after Fast and Slow, where the lines are all passenger rated. As swt_passenger says, there's relief lines at Waterloo throat, the southern WCML also has them at Willesden (Up & down reliefs connecting the West London Line to the Slows), Tring (platform 4) & Bletchley (Relief 1 & 2 are between the slows and the sidings).

A very odd situation is at Oxford, where the loops were extended to form a 4-track to Wolvercote Junction and so it became Main and Relief, with a convention arrangment of DR-DM-UM-UR (although in the appendix they are only labelled as Up/Down Oxford, not 'main', but I've seen other documentation that refer to them as mains), but because of the platforms only being on the Relief lines they raised the RL linespeed and put in high-speed points where needed. Freights are intended to be held on the Main Lines, and passengers to overtake them via the Reliefs. It makes sense when you think about it, but it looks odd on a plan having trains waiting on the 'main' for the 'relief' to overtake

 

[swt_passenger]

The changes to bring the former international platforms into use at Waterloo named the two new lines nominally approaching P22 and P23 as Windsor Relief 1 and 2, (which seemed odd at the time), but I expect the idea was to leave all the existing designations alone.

I‘d assume it will all look a bit different after the next area resignalling though, especially if certain proposals for a 5 track main side and a “carriage line” come to fruition...

 

[SargeNpton]

On the WCML, between Roade Cutting and Rugby the fast and slow are known colloquially as Old Line and New Line.

 

[zwk500]

On the WCML, between Roade Cutting and Rugby the fast and slow are known colloquially as Old Line and New Line.

Similarly there's also the Barrow Hill Lines which are known as the 'Old Road' and the line via Dronfield as the 'New Road', can't remember if the Old road continues on through Moorthorpe towards York or if it's counted as finishing at Aldwarke Jn.
Slightly veering off into 'unusual line names' there's also the fast Line of the Brighton Line that are the 'Quarry Lines'.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-london-line-the-atlantic-lines.61050/ to your second question. But apparently named after Atlantic Road which you can see in the attached map.

There's also the Atlantic pub.

Brixton’s old Atlantic pub name honoured in Dogstar refurbishment

We’re pleased to see that Antic, the Dogstar’s owners, have paid tribute to the history of the building and revealed the iconic Atlantic sign at the top of the building in Coldharbour L…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

I don't know which name came first, the road or the pub (which has been there at least as long as the railway, which was opened in 1865).

 

[30907]

References in earlier posts to the LSWR as having “through and local” lines are surely only historic, although the way they’re written suggests the terms are still in use?

But it’s all described in conventional fast and slow terms nowadays on the various four track sections. At least in the sectional appendix it is. I suspect it formally changed in one of the major resignallings.

You are quite right, and I hadn't noticed the change. For modelling purposes I am in a 1959-61 timewarp. Wimbledon ASC dates from 1986, but the major layout changes took place slightly later for Eurostar, so the re-designation could have take place then (probably with the ASC).

 

[StephenHunter]

I'd have to look to see if it's changed but 'Main' and 'Electric' were shown on the Network Rail signs for the GEML.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'd have to look to see if it's changed but 'Main' and 'Electric' were shown on the Network Rail signs for the GEML.

That is still the line designations.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The Euston - Queens Park -Harrow - Watford lines were know as the "new line" , as well as the "DC". New in 1915 and 1917.

Of course , Surbiton - Oxshot - Guildford also had the same designation.

 

[HowardGWR]

"The Worcester" in Ipswich Lower Yard , where for many years a fully fitted freight for that city was assembled and despatched from. Many others.

A bit OT but I was intrigued to know what the cargo was demanding such a service. I assumed an ingredient for vinegar or sauce. But needing a 'fitted' for such a commodity?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A bit OT but I was intrigued to know what the cargo was demanding such a service. I assumed an ingredient for vinegar or sauce. But needing a 'fitted' for such a commodity?

Lost in the mists of time , I am afraid.