GWR 4700 Class workings?

[6Gman]

I know that the nine locos of the 4700 class were used on overnight fitted freights between London and the West Country, Bristol and the West Midlands but does anyone know exactly what trains they worked?

 

[Bevan Price]

I know that the nine locos of the 4700 class were used on overnight fitted freights between London and the West Country, Bristol and the West Midlands but does anyone know exactly what trains they worked?

They certainly worked the overnight freights between London & Birkenhead. They were also used on some summer saturday services between London Paddington and the West Country; their "Red" route availability meant that they could not stray far from the principal main lines.

 

[Taunton]

There's a list of these key GWR overnight freights worked by the various classes in George Behrend's book "Gone With Regret". Afraid mine's in the attic nowadays.

I did read that commonly all nine would be on shed at 3pm in the afternoon, and then all would be out on the line at speed at 3am.

 

[Cowley]

It’s a pity no original ones survived, I think they were one of the best proportioned locos the GWR ever designed.
With those large diameter driving wheels I’d assume they could reach quite a decent speed given the opportunity?

 

[Taunton]

The GW Society at Didcot announced they would build a new one, but that was 10 years ago and not a lot seems to have happened since; the operation at Didcot does seem to have lost its way in recent years.

 

[tiptoptaff]

The GW Society at Didcot announced they would build a new one, but that was 10 years ago and not a lot seems to have happened since; the operation at Didcot does seem to have lost its way in recent years.

Shame really, because they've done a fantastic job with the Saint. Absolutely brilliant loco.

I believe the Night Owls worked priority freights - milks, eggs, mail and other perishables. As noted, they did work some heavy summer Saturday specials

 

[6Gman]

They certainly worked the overnight freights between London & Birkenhead. They were also used on some summer saturday services between London Paddington and the West Country; their "Red" route availability meant that they could not stray far from the principal main lines.

Did they get all the way to Birkenhead?

 

[Taunton]

Did they get all the way to Birkenhead?

Yes they did, there are photos of them on Birkenhead shed on the web. One or more was even allocated there in some years - the Ian Allan 1950 loco shedbook shows it was 4704 in that year. Straight round the avoiding line at Chester. A lot of Irish agricultural products and perishables were imported through Birkenhead docks and the locos took this traffic to London overnight.https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p1849823/h6F1CA470#h6f1ca470

 

[tomatwark]

Shame really, because they've done a fantastic job with the Saint. Absolutely brilliant loco.

I believe the Night Owls worked priority freights - milks, eggs, mail and other perishables. As noted, they did work some heavy summer Saturday specials

The is a project https://www.4709.org.uk/

And they are making stead progress.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

There's a list of these key GWR overnight freights worked by the various classes in George Behrend's book "Gone With Regret". Afraid mine's in the attic nowadays.

I did read that commonly all nine would be on shed at 3pm in the afternoon, and then all would be out on the line at speed at 3am.

My copy is on the bookshelf behind me so I've scanned the relevant pages! Very interesting, the number of different long distant overnight services to various destinations does give a good insight to the importance of freight on the GWR network...and the 'names' - unofficial?

 

[Cowley]

My copy is on the bookshelf behind me so I've scanned the relevant pages! Very interesting, the number of different long distant overnight services to various destinations does give a good insight to the importance of freight on the GWR network...and the 'names' - unofficial?View attachment 82489View attachment 82490

That’s very interesting. Some great names in there.
“What are you on tonight Bill? I’m on ‘The Pasty’ Fred. What about you?”

 

[Loppylugs]

I was a fireman at Reading (81D) Depot in the early sixties and fired my one and only 47 on April 20th 1964. We had 4707 on the "Up Fly", with an earlyish start from Reading and called at every flipping shunting yard between there and Ladbroke Grove!! I remember it very well because the cab roof dropped much lower than the usual GWR locos and I had quite a few bruises at the end of the trip as mementos.

 

[Cowley]

I was a fireman at Reading (81D) Depot in the early sixties and fired my one and only 47 on April 20th 1964. We had 4707 on the "Up Fly", with an earlyish start from Reading and called at every flipping shunting yard between there and Ladbroke Grove!! I remember it very well because the cab roof dropped much lower than the usual GWR locos and I had quite a few bruises at the end of the trip as mementos.

Thanks for posting this. What a great memory.

 

[4141]

That’s very interesting. Some great names in there.
“What are you on tonight Bill? I’m on ‘The Pasty’ Fred. What about you?”

I'm on "The Sauce"!

 

[Diplodicus]

I really loved name for the 10.05pm Bristol to Paddington... "The Up Cocoa". I believe it was choc full of Frys products.

 

[Graham S]

I know that the nine locos of the 4700 class were used on overnight fitted freights between London and the West Country, Bristol and the West Midlands but does anyone know exactly what trains they worked?

One was the 0610 Paddingtongoods to Oxley. We Tyseley men relived it at Tyseley and worked it to Oxley. Graham.

 

[Taunton]

The "timetable" of those GWR fast goods was much more variable than passenger services, for dependent on the freight load they could be cancelled, duplicated, consolidated, or whatever, with loads very different from day to day, and the allocated loco type changing to suit. The freight offering from Birkenhead would be very dependent on shipping arrivals from Ireland and elsewhere. Mineral traffic etc would just be made up to a standard load, anything left over just left to the following day, but the Perishables and other such goods couldn't work like that, and the traffic offered, often at very short notice as it drove into the goods depot, was effectively guaranteed an overnight transit. The freight clerks organising this would have much experience of doing so efficiently, liaising with the various forwarders earlier in the day.

 

[6Gman]

My copy is on the bookshelf behind me so I've scanned the relevant pages! Very interesting, the number of different long distant overnight services to various destinations does give a good insight to the importance of freight on the GWR network...and the 'names' - unofficial?View attachment 82489View attachment 82490

A really interesting list.

Since there were only 9 locos in the class and they worked overnight services they presumably worked either 3 or 4 pairs of trains (the latter would require 8 of the 9 to be available, which seems ambitious!).

Anyway, I'm surmising the workings could well have been:

2110 Padd-Birkenhead returning with 2020 B'head-Padd

2305 Padd-Wolverhampton / 2300 Birmingham-Padd

2315 Padd-Bristol / 1940 or 2205 Bristol-Padd

The tricky one is 2310 Padd-Laira which I assume would have been a 47XX, but what would the return have been?

In 1955 7 were based at OOC, 2 at Bristol so I assume 82B worked the Bristols (with something else stepping in if required - Hall?), with 81A turning out 6 of their 7 locos overall.

Thoughts?

 

[Taunton]

Apparently it was quite common for all 9 to be out at once on a given night, if none were in Swindon for overhaul.

Notwithstanding their nocturnal tasks, there are plenty of photographs of them out in the day as well, the diagrams likely varied from day to day within the week. Unlike passengers, who normally balance both ways over time, freight does not, the fast freight demand is typically one way only, and it needs a bit of scrabbling round to make efficient return workings - something which over time the railway optimised as much as they could.

 

[Richard Scott]

Yes they did, there are photos of them on Birkenhead shed on the web. One or more was even allocated there in some years - the Ian Allan 1950 loco shedbook shows it was 4704 in that year. Straight round the avoiding line at Chester. A lot of Irish agricultural products and perishables were imported through Birkenhead docks and the locos took this traffic to London overnight.https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p1849823/h6F1CA470#h6f1ca470

Just been looking through latest magazine from Glos Warks Railway and a picture of 4701 at Birkenhead!