GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[FGW_DID]

Interesting! Some GWR Oxford to London Paddington fasts diagrams are being run by a 6-car Turbo instead of a 5-car IET!

One diagram was a 6 car Turbo, finishing at Reading after attaching with the Greenford 2 car and running ECS. I believe this was due to 802114 being swapped with 165101 on 1A01 from Bristol Temple Meads.

Two diagrams (one diagram per unit!). 800018 had failed at Oxford the previous evening and the defective end had to be ‘boxed in’. This left a unit short for a Paddington departure Sat morning so it was arranged with Reading TCD to provide 165101 & 165104 to run the Oxford / Paddington services.

1D14* / 1P14* / 1D20 / 1P20 / 1D26 / 1P26 / 1D32 / 1P32 / 1D38 / 1P38

*165101 only, then 104 attached for remainder of workings.

As noted, the 6 car then attached, at Paddington, to the Greenford 2 car to run ECS back to Reading TCD.

 

[Jim]

One diagram was a 6 car Turbo, finishing at Reading after attaching with the Greenford 2 car and running ECS. I believe this was due to 802114 being swapped with 165101 on 1A01 from Bristol Temple Meads.

1A01 was totally unrelated, that was due to 5A01 late off of Stoke Gifford

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

1A01 was totally unrelated, that was due to 5A01 late off of Stoke Gifford

Ah, I see. I’m aware it did have to be operated by a 158 from Temple Meads to Parkway. Perhaps that’s why the data feeds show the service as 3 carriages at Reading and London Paddington, by mistake. It showed a 3 carriage train arriving off of 1A01 and then the six-carriage Turbo service leaving the same platform shortly after.

 

[Express380]

Can anyone tell me the Weekday and Saturday diagrams for the Cardiff to Portsmouth for the 165,166s please I realise they can be swapped or subbed in day to day but any help is much appreciated.

 

[cactustwirly]

Had the pleasure of a very broken 165103 to Oxford today instead of the usual 800.
It sounded very broken and lost a lot of time, arriving into Oxford 17 minutes late and was packed almost leaving people behind at Didcot.

Any reason why this wasn't a 800 given there is apparently a surplus of 5 cars?

The 800 back from Oxford was also packed with passengers standing down the aisles all the way to London.

 

[JN114]

Any reason why this wasn't a 800 given there is apparently a surplus of 5 cars?

While there is a general, fleetwide surplus; there weren’t enough serviceable 5 cars at the London End of the network this morning, compounded by a nasty engineering overrun which left no route whatsoever between London and Bristol/Taunton for the first few hours of service.

A Turbo probably isn’t ideal, but the alternative was cancel the entire diagram.

 

[Western Sunset]

Occasionally things can work to the passengers' advantage...

Here a "Castle" substitutes for a poorly 166 on a Salisbury - Worcester service; the HST working between Bristol and Worcester.

 

[Snow1964]

While there is a general, fleetwide surplus; there weren’t enough serviceable 5 cars at the London End of the network this morning,

If there is fleet surplus, why are so many Cardiff-Portsmouth services short formed everyday, and routes that can take 5car IETs like Frome-Worcester not doing so to free up more turbos.

If there is a surplus of stock, doesn't seem logical they are being parked whilst short forms occur, which suggests the surplus is more imaginary than real.

 

[Benjwri]

why are so many Cardiff-Portsmouth services short formed everyday,

There’s an IET surplus, IETs aren’t cleared to Portsmouth, and therefore can’t help with the short forming.

routes that can take 5car IETs like Frome-Worcester not doing so

There are very few services, let alone diagrams, in this area they could fill, because the longer distance ones go to places the IETs aren’t cleared and the shorter distance ones stop at places the IETs are too long for the platform, which causes chaos.

 

[cactustwirly]

While there is a general, fleetwide surplus; there weren’t enough serviceable 5 cars at the London End of the network this morning, compounded by a nasty engineering overrun which left no route whatsoever between London and Bristol/Taunton for the first few hours of service.

A Turbo probably isn’t ideal, but the alternative was cancel the entire diagram.

Ideally 5 cars should have been used and one that isn't broken so it can actually reach 90mph...

 

[Benjwri]

Ideally 5 cars should have been used and one that isn't broken so it can actually reach 90mph...

But where are you getting that from? As mentioned it wasn't possible to get to London to bring a replacement unit, especially at short notice. Obviously the 387s could not cover, and therefore they used what they could, which was a 166, which albeit broken at least got the passengers to their destination. Unless GWR has gained the ability to magic trains out of nowhere, they did the absolute best they could, and as mentioned the only other alternative was to cancel the service entirely, which I hope you can agree would be worse for everyone.

 

[cactustwirly]

But where are you getting that from? As mentioned it wasn't possible to get to London to bring a replacement unit, especially at short notice. Obviously the 387s could not cover, and therefore they used what they could, which was a 166, which albeit broken at least got the passengers to their destination. Unless GWR has gained the ability to magic trains out of nowhere, they did the absolute best they could, and as mentioned the only other alternative was to cancel the service entirely, which I hope you can agree would be worse for everyone.

The North Downs line had a reduced service because of engineering work so there would have been more 165s spare than normal

 

[Benjwri]

Thats not a given though, and I highly doubt it’s true. It was a reduced service but some trains were trapped on the other side of North Camp, and presumably they were also formed of longer units than normal due to the reduced timetable, and this couldn’t be changed.

I am absolutely certain there was not a serviceable 166 sitting at Reading but they decided to send a broken one.

 

[FGW_DID]

There are no 166s at Reading, serviceable or broken!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There are no 166s at Reading, serviceable or broken!

I was just waiting for that; I knew someone wouldn’t be able to resist!

 

[Snow1964]

There are very few services, let alone diagrams, in this area they could fill, because the longer distance ones go to places the IETs aren’t cleared and the shorter distance ones stop at places the IETs are too long for the platform, which causes chaos.

There might be just a few diagrams that are suitable, but even releasing 1 or 2 turbos would help the short forming.

As for IETs being too long, already got trains like 1K71 Bristol-Paddington with 9car IET stopping at places like Trowbridge with 5car platforms (and preceding train is usually a 6car 166 which is also longer than some platforms). Although both of these are early morning when stations are unstaffed.

 

[Benjwri]

As for IETs being too long, already got trains like 1K71 Bristol-Paddington with 9car IET stopping at places like Trowbridge with 5car platforms (and preceding train is usually a 6car 166 which is also longer than some platforms). Although both of these are early morning when stations are unstaffed.

The semi fasts stop at places that are capable of handling an IET yes, but except for early mornings all extend into places the IETs are not cleared past Westbury. The stopper services are the ones that don't extend beyond IET territory, but stop at Freshford and Oldfield, which are a bit short for IETs (And I don't think Freshford it stop markered), but also Avoncliffe, which is ridiculously fort for even a 166, and there's no way an IET could reasonably stop there. For IETs to take these services some or all of these stops would have to be skipped.

 

[FGW_DID]

I was just waiting for that; I knew someone wouldn’t be able to resist!

Glad I’ve not left you disappointed!

 

[158747]

As for IETs being too long, already got trains like 1K71 Bristol-Paddington with 9car IET stopping at places like Trowbridge with 5car platforms (and preceding train is usually a 6car 166 which is also longer than some platforms). Although both of these are early morning when stations are unstaffed.

The 6-car Turbo which precedes 1K71 is 1F01 0500 Bristol TM - Portsmouth Harbour. Only the front 3 cars are in passenger service, the rear 3 car unit being locked out of use between Bristol TM and Westbury, where it is then detached to form 1F02 0558 Westbury - Cardiff Central.

 

[Siemens Staines]

A hangover from the last timetables 165 diagrams, but it looks like the last Bristol/Reading 2-car set swap at Worcester took place this morning (09/02)

165132 2E77 0510 Oxford to Worcester Shrub Hill
165132 2O72 0652 Worcester Foregate Street to Weymouth from Worcester Shrub Hill

165129 2O72 0652 Worcester Foregate Street to Weymouth to Worcester Shrub Hill
165129 2E80 0701 Worcester Shrub Hill to Didcot Parkway

I think 165132 had been out of service at Reading since mid November until this week, and hence the delayed swap?

I believe this makes the two 2-car 165 fleets;
Reading 165118-165129
Bristol 165130-165137

 

[FGW_DID]

A hangover from the last timetables 165 diagrams, but it looks like the last Bristol/Reading 2-car set swap at Worcester took place this morning (09/02)

165132 2E77 0510 Oxford to Worcester Shrub Hill
165132 2O72 0652 Worcester Foregate Street to Weymouth from Worcester Shrub Hill

165129 2O72 0652 Worcester Foregate Street to Weymouth to Worcester Shrub Hill
165129 2E80 0701 Worcester Shrub Hill to Didcot Parkway

I think 165132 had been out of service at Reading since mid November until this week, and hence the delayed swap?

I believe this makes the two 2-car 165 fleets;
Reading 165118-165129
Bristol 165130-165137

Yep, 165132 had been on the long term stop list for various reasons.

I'm sure 128 & 129 are SPM units as well but they're at Reading while we have 2 units away at Wolverton.

165101 & 102 should be going back west in the very near future with 165111 & 116 coming back east.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Thank you for your reply. I had assumed that a pool of 12 3-car 165 at Reading was permanent and when the Wolverton 165 programme was complete, the final two would go from Wolverton to Bristol as direct replacements for the first two 166s to go to Wolverton. So Bristol would change from two 3-car 165 + twenty one 166 to four 3-car 165 + nineteen 166 for the duration of the 166 Wolverton programme? My assumptions are probably wrong though!

 

[Train Boy]

May I ask if there is any idea of the whereabouts of 166216, I don't believe it has been out for some time or is it just me?

Many thanks.

 

[FGW_DID]

Thank you for your reply. I had assumed that a pool of 12 3-car 165 at Reading was permanent and when the Wolverton 165 programme was complete, the final two would go from Wolverton to Bristol as direct replacements for the first two 166s to go to Wolverton. So Bristol would change from two 3-car 165 + twenty one 166 to four 3-car 165 + nineteen 166 for the duration of the 166 Wolverton programme? My assumptions are probably wrong though!

That could well be the case, I don't know what the plans are but your thoughts certainly sounds reasonable.

May I ask if there is any idea of the whereabouts of 166216, I don't believe it has been out for some time or is it just me?

Many thanks.

Long term stopper at SPM (120 days+)

 

[Train Boy]

Long term stopper at SPM (120 days+)

Cheers!

 

[vicbury]

Glad I was working from home today! Dreading Monday. Is there an end in sight to all these short formations on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Glad I was working from home today! Dreading Monday. Is there an end in sight to all these short formations on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route? View attachment 128766

Not until the issue getting spare parts for the 16x fleet is resolved - both Chiltern and GWR really struggling with this at the moment.

The 158 spares were eased by the stripping of withdrawn 158763.

 

[vicbury]

Not until the issue getting spare parts for the 16x fleet is resolved - both Chiltern and GWR really struggling with this at the moment.

The 158 spares were eased by the stripping of withdrawn 158763.

Do we know what parts are unavailable? Presumably the situation is going to get worse and not better if a supply of parts isn't secured.

 

[JN114]

Glad I was working from home today! Dreading Monday. Is there an end in sight to all these short formations on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route? View attachment 128766

Frankly, no.

The Turbos are getting longer and longer in the tooth - the companies that make parts for them are all going bust and where they aren’t the DfT isn’t granting authority to obtain new parts to fix issues without an unnecessary amount of jumping through hoops. Splitting the responsibility for them between Bristol and Reading has also created inefficiencies that didn’t exist when they were all based at Reading. All that’s why a (small) number of both Chiltern and GW’s fleets have been stood down and stripped for spares: just to keep their brethren going. The DfT also aren’t granting additional budget to recruit more engineering staff to look after them despite an evident and obvious downturn in reliability, won’t sanction necessary changes to make better use of fleets etc etc. The bean counters say none of it is necessary.

I’d expect the problems to get worse before they get better unless there is a radical political shift in attitudes towards rail investment. Penny wise and Pound stupid as the DfT ultimately ends up “paying” more for a rubbish rail service than a good one.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Stripping units only gets you so far. You still have to get your repairables repaired.

The only problem then is have your repairables gone past the point of repair. Then you are into re-manufacturing and, expensive or not, you have to find someone to do it. That may not be in the UK.

Both the 15x and 16x units need a proper replacement programme as the 15x units are not immune to stockouts either but they are, at the moment, more numerous. But their turn for serious spares issues is coming.