GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[Jim]

0615 EXM-PGN may be a HST from Exeter in the morning, unless a fleet of units suddenly shows itself!

 

[Class172]

Well given it’s still showing as such I can only assume the above took place, with a 158 currently showing as taking over the diagram from St David’s towards Exmouth.

 

[REVUpminster]

HST did run Exeter-Paignton. Four turbos today Exmouth Paignton with 3 2x150s. The 158s seemed to have disappeared except for one 3 car on Barnstaple, with two 2x150s, and two 2 car 158s on Okehampton.

 

[Class172]

A question for those more informed than me: is there a reason that Castle HST sets do not substitute services on the Exmouth portion of Exmouth-Paignton services?

I had a couple of thoughts why, but would be curious to know if any of these (or others) are possible explanations:

• Castle HSTs are not cleared down the line. I know from the sectional appendix that 43+mark 3s are cleared, but perhaps there is some paperwork distinction for the Castle class.
• Exmouth is only a signed route for local Exeter drivers, who do not sign HSTs, whereas Paignton is also likely signed by longer distance drivers who can take an HST at short notice to deputise lack of other stock. I will caveat this with my lack of knowledge of what the drivers sign, so the assumptions here may be completely wrong and are just based on my guesswork.
• Or more simply, platform length and sighting issues (I know a few on the Exmouth side are quite short).

 

[Ashley Hill]

One was tested a year or two ago late at night. Some platform height issues plus too long to for the down platform at Topsham making crossing trains awkward
.
Here it is at Exmouth,and below Lympstone Village.

 

[Jim]

Well given it’s still showing as such I can only assume the above took place, with a 158 currently showing as taking over the diagram from St David’s towards Exmouth.

Spot on. Trying to prevent short forms for the AM peak!

 

[Minstral25]

Seems to be several cancellations along the North Downs line today (31/10) - various reporting codes being used including "more trains needing repair than normal"

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Seems to be several cancellations along the North Downs line today (31/10) - various reporting codes being used including "more trains needing repair than normal"

One of the trade-offs to meet budget constraints (and the phased withdrawal of HSTs) was the removal of the AM peak only working on the North Downs which then provided a stand-by set.

Whilst some could argue this was short-sighted the other options were some deep level service cuts to meet the required operating budget that would probably have left holes in the timetable on the NDL anyway.

 

[Minstral25]

One of the trade-offs to meet budget constraints (and the phased withdrawal of HSTs) was the removal of the AM peak only working on the North Downs which then provided a stand-by set.

Whilst some could argue this was short-sighted the other options were some deep level service cuts to meet the required operating budget that would probably have left holes in the timetable on the NDL anyway.

Understood (and with appreciation that we still have a good 'planned' timetable).

Today there seems to be at least 2 sets missing, so even the standby would not have been enough.

 

[infobleep]

Seems to be several cancellations along the North Downs line today (31/10) - various reporting codes being used including "more trains needing repair than normal"

Is it my imagination or does something like this occur every 2 or 3 weeks on the North Downs Line?

 

[800301]

Is it my imagination or does something like this occur every 2 or 3 weeks on the North Downs Line?

Today was particularly bad, including the bedwyn set suffering with an engine out and other issues this evening

 

[387131]

Understood (and with appreciation that we still have a good 'planned' timetable).

Today there seems to be at least 2 sets missing, so even the standby would not have been enough.

165127 failed at Oxford with a wet cab.
165122 failed at Reading on 2K22. (165105 replaced it)
165129 failed on the 3rd Basingstoke.
165122 failed again at Oxford in the afternoon peak.
165105 had a carriage locked out on 2T27
165117 failed at Reading on 2J83.

It's been a challenging day with the Fleet.

 

[Snow1964]

165127 failed at Oxford with a wet cab.
165122 failed at Reading on 2K22. (165105 replaced it)
165129 failed on the 3rd Basingstoke.
165122 failed again at Oxford in the afternoon peak.
165105 had a carriage locked out on 2T27
165117 failed at Reading on 2J83.

It's been a challenging day with the Fleet.

There were also few cancellations on Tuesday in Bath and Westbury area due to defective fleet

2V92 Salisbury-Bristol although that was 3car 158950
2O10 Bristol-Salisbury (and their returns)
166208 only did part of 2E71 Westbury-Gloucester
Also lot more than normal Portsmouth-Cardiff were down to 3car

Blatantly the fleet is being overstretched, as cancellations due to lack of train are happening many days, not on very rare occasions anymore.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Blatantly the fleet is being overstretched, as cancellations due to lack of train are happening many days, not on very rare occasions anymore.

I don’t think anyone at GWR will deny that, unfortunately they were given an operating budget which required any slack to be taken out the train fleet.

It should be noted this could be far worse as GWR has now successfully managed to negotiate the retention of some Castle HSTs through to 2025 instead of leaving the train fleet next month.

 

[RPI]

I don’t think anyone at GWR will deny that, unfortunately they were given an operating budget which required any slack to be taken out the train fleet.

It should be noted this could be far worse as GWR has now successfully managed to negotiate the retention of some Castle HSTs through to 2025 instead of leaving the train fleet next month.

Yes, as much as I whinge on a daily basis, I think the relevant people at GWR have pulled off a decent compromise.

 

[REVUpminster]

Devon's not too bad for a few days with the engineering work at Falmouth and only one unit working St Ives has freed three 150s for a week.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Devon's not too bad for a few days with the engineering work at Falmouth and only one unit working St Ives has freed three 150s for a week.

With the passing of the October half-term the St Ives branch will be down to a single set until March time next year so will bring a bit of respite.

Yes, as much as I whinge on a daily basis, I think the relevant people at GWR have pulled off a decent compromise.

Indeed, I don’t think people realise how ‘real’ some of the potential cuts were. GWR seems to have done very well tinkering around the edges but largely retained the previous level of service.

You only have to look at operators like Northern with the thinning out of the off-peak Airedale electrics or Chiltern with the reductions on the long standing 1/2 hourly Aylesbury off-peak service to see what could have been other options to meet the budget constraints.

No operator likes cutting train services or fleet sizes however if the funding isn’t there something has to go.

 

[CarltonA]

I was using Ashchurch station for a couple of days this week. I was surprised by an IET on the Worcester service. The following day saw an HST on the return. Obviously some serious stock shortages in play.

 

[smithy_37688]

I was using Ashchurch station for a couple of days this week. I was surprised by an IET on the Worcester service. The following day saw an HST on the return. Obviously some serious stock shortages in play.

Believe they were standing in for unavailable units. This week has seen a few HST's to Gloucester/Worcester vice units.

 

[The exile]

There were also few cancellations on Tuesday in Bath and Westbury area due to defective fleet

2V92 Salisbury-Bristol although that was 3car 158950
2O10 Bristol-Salisbury (and their returns)
166208 only did part of 2E71 Westbury-Gloucester
Also lot more than normal Portsmouth-Cardiff were down to 3car

Blatantly the fleet is being overstretched, as cancellations due to lack of train are happening many days, not on very rare occasions anymore.

Mind you, cancellations due “more trains than usual needing repairs” have been a fixture for years. The exception has unfortunately become the rule.

 

[Snow1964]

Mind you, cancellations due “more trains than usual needing repairs” have been a fixture for years. The exception has unfortunately become the rule.

Yes, used to be few days a year max

Now it happens everyday. I'm not even sure if a single day has been worked by GWR this year without at least one short formation or cancellation due to lack of stock.

 

[800301]

Yes, used to be few days a year max

Now it happens everyday. I'm not even sure if a single day has been worked by GWR this year without at least one short formation or cancellation due to lack of stock.

Well if someone would give GWR enough trains in the first place that aren’t 30+ years old and incredibly hard to get parts for or made by Hitachi, I’m sure it would be a different story but it doesn’t look like the DfT see it that way. The way GWR try to no end to keep services running with a fleet that is pushed hard as it is everyday deserves credit as it must be an absolute nightmare having to do multiple set swaps and get trains in the right places for the next day of service along with staff that don’t sign all tractions for one reason or another

 

[Jim]

As of Wednesday morning, Exeter was only 1 x Turbo short of its planned daily amount and by no coincidence there are stacks of trains cancelled in the Bristol area "More trains than usual needing repairs at the same time". You can certainly see how much short forming can hide the problem of being short of units, but hardly any short forms in Devon the last few mornings and the trade off for that can be seen in the Bristol area.

 

[RPI]

As of Wednesday morning, Exeter was only 1 x Turbo short of its planned daily amount and by no coincidence there are stacks of trains cancelled in the Bristol area "More trains than usual needing repairs at the same time". You can certainly see how much short forming can hide the problem of being short of units, but hardly any short forms in Devon the last few mornings and the trade off for that can be seen in the Bristol area.

Yes, thats the problem, it papers over the cracks short forming everything, people will just grin and put up with standing in someone's arm pit, but chuck a load of cancellations in and people will have to wake up.

 

[REVUpminster]

Exeter doing alright because 5x2 150s are being used Exeter Paignton because Falmouth is closed this week.

 

[Jim]

Yes, thats the problem, it papers over the cracks short forming everything, people will just grin and put up with standing in someone's arm pit, but chuck a load of cancellations in and people will have to wake up.

Been a good week for 150 availability too, always helps.

Exeter doing alright because 5x2 150s are being used Exeter Paignton because Falmouth is closed this week.

This week
3 at Penzance
2 at Par
2 at Laira

The out of Exeter requirements haven't changed this week at all, only thing to note is now October has finished the St Ives is back to booked 2 car.

 

[JonathanH]

GWR journey check suggests some fast Turbo action out of Paddington today. Currently showing 1023, 1323, 1623 and 1923, plus the 2230 to Bedwyn booked for a 2-car train, although RTT says that 165106 is allocated, having been sent from Reading on 5P20 0920 Reading Traincare Depot to London Paddington

 

[Siemens Staines]

I think that there was also a vice IET out of Paddington yesterday evening

165116
1K26 1906 London Paddington to Bedwyn
1K35 2042 Bedwyn to London Paddington

This weeks North Downs block means that there are a few spare 165s at Reading to help out. There are also two pairs of 387s on Cardiff IET diagrams this morning (0918 and 1218 ex Paddington)

 

[800301]

I think that there was also a vice IET out of Paddington yesterday evening

165116
1K26 1906 London Paddington to Bedwyn
1K35 2042 Bedwyn to London Paddington

This weeks North Downs block means that there are a few spare 165s at Reading to help out. There are also two pairs of 387s on Cardiff IET diagrams this morning (0918 and 1218 ex Paddington)

It had been out all day pretty much, today
165114 is pretending to be an 800, covering 1W15, If it stays out it should work: 1P26,1W27,1P38,1D40,1P45

 

[Minstral25]

2 units missing on North Downs this morning.

What has become a big problem locally is that 1V39 which takes around 40 school kids from Redhill/Reigate to Dorking has been cancelled every day this week creating havoc to the kids education.