GWR Class 230 Information, Movements & Discussion.

[TurboMan]

Most informative - thanks!

Is this something that is being pioneered in the UK then?

I believe so - at least, this is the first use of the technology in a railway application anywhere as far as I'm aware.

The battery banks are supplied by Powerstar and are already widely in use in other sectors to provide a back-up power supply to hospitals (to keep the operating theatres going), supermarkets (to keep the freezers running) etc. in the event of a power cut. Powerstar are providing technical support and on-call response for the GWR trial.

More info here: https://powerstar.com/technology/battery-energy-storage-systems-bess/

 

[Peter Sarf]

I believe so - at least, this is the first use of the technology in a railway application anywhere as far as I'm aware.

The battery banks are supplied by Powerstar and are already widely in use in other sectors to provide a back-up power supply to hospitals (to keep the operating theatres going), supermarkets (to keep the freezers running) etc. in the event of a power cut. Powerstar are providing technical support and on-call response for the GWR trial.

More info here: https://powerstar.com/technology/battery-energy-storage-systems-bess/

Now this begs the question. Are these batteries going to endure more dramatic charge/discharge cycles than those used for backup power ?.

 

[TurboMan]

Now this begs the question. Are these batteries going to endure more dramatic charge/discharge cycles than those used for backup power ?.

That's exactly the sort of question that this trial looks to answer.

 

[SynthD]

That sort of charging system uses a high-voltage feed - which is great if you already have high-voltage supply

Is that version used or considered for use in this country?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Is that version used or considered for use in this country?

The version the GWR Class 230 trial is using is the slow method, battery charges slowly from the grid, then rapidly pushes that all into the train without putting stress onto the grid.

When an electric train accelerates it pulls a lot of power, but being able to spread that power over a slow gain in that battery to dump it all into the train fast means there isn't a big spike in demand, it's a constant level.

There are 6 ways batteries in UK trains are charged (that I can think of off the top of my head):
1. As decribed above (slow at grid, fast to train) (GWR 230).
2. Overnight slow charging in depot (also GWR 230).
3. From 3rd rail (777).
4. From OLE (398/756).
5. From Diesel engines (TfW hybrid 230).
6. Regenerative braking (presumably all of the above do?)

 

[Invincible]

But as reported in the latest Modern Railways magazine, GWR now have their heart set on going straight into total fleet replacement of all 15X and 16X vehicles with a moreorless homogeneous fleet of new trains which will be a mixture of 25kV electric and 25kV/battery hybrid, combined with extension of the OHLE here and there. Chiltern Railways and East West Rail could well end up ordering the same type of train to create an even larger homogeneous regional fleet, which makes a lot of sense to be honest. Now whether the Treasury will authorise the funding for any of that is an entirely different matter altogether, and whether the trains will be in service this side of 2035 is debatable!

I expect GWR, other TOCs and DfT (also GBR transition team) have initial tenders back and are discussing with various manufacturers details of the potentially leased new trains with a mixture of power options.
So no more 230s?.
If an order is placed soon we might see new types of battery trains on GWR before 2035? The Government will be keen to ensure the current UK train factories will have some orders to keep them running.
I expect the Alston bid will have something like the new Dart Xtrapolis battery trains in Dublin to be built in Derby?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2025 ==

230001 and the GWR Fast Charge trial, which is due to start carrying passengers probably in July this year,

Would have thought after the passenger load test/ railtour the 230 service would be ready to run, why the extra delay?

 

[Woods]

Would have thought after the passenger load test/ railtour the 230 service would be ready to run, why the extra delay?

The driver training programme needs to complete, and there are a few loose ends to tie-up on the paperwork / procedural front. The railtour was carried out under special circumstances.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Is there any update on when the train will run in normal service. At one time we were told it would be with the new timetable (which came into force today, but the shuttle doesn't run on Sundays)

 

[Woods]

Is there any update on when the train will run in normal service. At one time we were told it would be with the new timetable (which came into force today, but the shuttle doesn't run on Sundays)

25th July 2025, hoping to start passenger service at long last. Probably Fridays only to begin with (nice soft start) then gradually building up to 6 days a week (Monday to Saturday) as more drivers are passed out on it. There is no Sunday service on the Greenford branch so Sunday will be the day for exams back at Reading when they are required (won't be every Sunday). Though obviously depends on availability, there are no spare 230 battery trains of course (because the DfT won't pay for them) so working 6 out of 7 days a week is asking for quite high availability of a fleet of 1, but we shall see! A Turbo will theoretically be available to cover for the 230 if it fails.

 

[D365]

Though obviously depends on availability, there are no spare 230 battery trains of course (because the DfT won't pay for them)...

Meanwhile there’s a further three 2 car units just ”sitting about”. But as we well know, it can’t be that simple

 

[Woods]

Meanwhile there’s a further three 2 car units just ”sitting about”. But as we well know, it can’t be that simple

Definitely not that simple, sadly. They're now 'sitting about' at the back of a dusty scrapyard in Warwickshire, along with all the other D78 survivors, covered in graffiti and pigeon poo! They will never see service as diesel trains again, that is for sure, and unless by some miracle the DfT suddenly finds itself with cash to splash, I doubt we'll see more 230 battery trains in this country either.

 

[Southern Dvr]

A Turbo will theoretically be available to cover for the 230 if it fails.

which begs the question, what exactly is the point of the 230?

 

[MotCO]

which begs the question, what exactly is the point of the 230?

Concept testing in real-life situations?

 

[Southern Dvr]

Concept testing in real-life situations?

But as mentioned elsewhere there is only one of them, and there is no money for further conversions. So the concept is all well and good but it won’t ever go anywhere!

 

[OscarH]

But as mentioned elsewhere there is only one of them, and there is no money for further conversions. So the concept is all well and good but it won’t ever go anywhere!

The concept is more the battery and fast charging system, than the mutilated d-stock. Testing that is still useful, and could be used on other stock, old or new, in the future

 

[John R]

But as mentioned elsewhere there is only one of them, and there is no money for further conversions. So the concept is all well and good but it won’t ever go anywhere!

I’m as disappointed as you that further conversions aren’t going to happen. But I disagree that there is no purpose to it. It’s an excellent test bed for the whole concept, which should give a lot of insight for the planned order of new trains for GWR as to how viable the technology is for use on branch lines.

I do wonder though how cost effective it is in comparison to simple electrification of the type of branches it might be used for, particularly given future schemes will need fewer bridge reconstructions. The Thames Valley branches being examples - relatively short but each one would need the installation of a fast charge unit at one end.

 

[The exile]

I’m as disappointed as you that further conversions aren’t going to happen. But I disagree that there is no purpose to it. It’s an excellent test bed for the whole concept, which should give a lot of insight for the planned order of new trains for GWR as to how viable the technology is for use on branch lines.

I do wonder though how cost effective it is in comparison to simple electrification of the type of branches it might be used for, particularly given future schemes will need fewer bridge reconstructions. The Thames Valley branches being examples - relatively short but each one would need the installation of a fast charge unit at one end.

If the trickle charge of the shore batteries can be done off the existing local electricity supply network, I would imagine that brings massive savings

 

[Wyrleybart]

But as mentioned elsewhere there is only one of them, and there is no money for further conversions. So the concept is all well and good but it won’t ever go anywhere!

That is the bonkers thing.
There is the 3 car battery 230 doing all the trials and testing and there are three 2 car diesel 230s, presumably still in the state they wee withdrawn from LnWR at Bletchley. Without some metallic surgery you couldn't really produce another 3 car unit to back up the prototype.
Is the centre car a trailer, or does it have batteries etc ?

 

[John R]

That is the bonkers thing.
There is the 3 car battery 230 doing all the trials and testing and there are three 2 car diesel 230s, presumably still in the state they wee withdrawn from LnWR at Bletchley. Without some metallic surgery you couldn't really produce another 3 car unit to back up the prototype.
Is the centre car a trailer, or does it have batteries etc ?

But if you regard it simply as a test bed (which it what it is), why do you need a backup? If it isn't available it gets replaced by a standard unit so passengers aren't disrupted. I'm sure the engineers are getting a wealth of real time data over several months of use, to inform the business when the time comes to specify the units for the wholesale replacement of the ageing DMUs in use on GWR.