GWR Class 230 Information, Movements & Discussion.

[D365]

Does anyone think that if GWR convert any remaining D78 bodyshells to battery power, will the class be given a new TOPS designation. For example Class 232 or 234?

If they are battery only then a DC EMU classification, such as 530 perhaps but who knows what random number they'll choose these days?

I can't help but ask - why so much interest in TOPS numbers specifically?

 

[birchesgreen]

I can't help but ask - why so much interest in TOPS numbers specifically?

Well personally obsession with (TOPS) numbers comes from my autism but i can't speak for everyone.

 

[CR165022]

Do you happen to know the breakdown of carriage numbers for these 2 units please?

seems to be this.
230002: 300002, 300111
230011: 300011, 300102

 

[Peter Sarf]

Lots and lots of posts on the subject getting way, way out of hand.

The managing director made one, offhand comment in an interview with one of the rail magazines, and the whole world and his dog have latched onto it as some gospel truth from upon high.

I feel collective expectations need to be somewhat tempered.

In my view the main point of the trial is to prove the fast charge technology works in a railway setting.

It is not about finding a use for all the D78s. If the trial is successful the results might be found in other new or recycled multiple units.

seems to be this.
230002: 300002, 300111
230011: 300011, 300102

Now what a mess we have here !.

But thanks btw.

 

[12LDA28C]

Charging rails and energy storage banks are now in place at West Ealing.

 

[Meerkat]

In my view the main point of the trial is to prove the fast charge technology works in a railway setting.

It is not about finding a use for all the D78s. If the trial is successful the results might be found in other new or recycled multiple units.

Indeed. Though if they are cheap to convert and work reliably they could be useful for outliers and awkward lines.
Prove the technology and packaging and get it stuck in whatever unit Churchward kicks out, but use D78s for branches that causes a Churchward spec issue to prevent one or two inconsequential branches wagging the dog and creating a sub-optimal Churchward unit for everyone else.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Indeed. Though if they are cheap to convert and work reliably they could be useful for outliers and awkward lines.
Prove the technology and packaging and get it stuck in whatever unit Churchward kicks out, but use D78s for branches that causes a Churchward spec issue to prevent one or two inconsequential branches wagging the dog and creating a sub-optimal Churchward unit for everyone else.

Indeed a good outcome if the Churchward design does not have to cover all bases and D78s can be used for the "odd one out" only cases.

 

[RandomTrainFan]

Wait

In my view the main point of the trial is to prove the fast charge technology works in a railway setting.

It is not about finding a use for all the D78s. If the trial is successful the results might be found in other new or recycled multiple units.

Now what a mess we have here !.

But thanks btw.

Wait so is there only 1 DM on each train?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Wait

Wait so is there only 1 DM on each train?

No. The end cars are both DMSs, numbered 3000xx and 3001xx. The three car units also have a TS, numbetred 3002xx. For some reason units 230002 and 230011 have swapped their 3001xx DMs, so unit 230002 is formed of cars 300002/300111, and unit 230011 is formed of cars 300011/300102

{EDIT} I am informed that 300011 and 300111 are actually driving trailers

 

[Woods]

Wait

Wait so is there only 1 DM on each train?

Yes that is correct. The two 2-car US trains only have 1 x DM car each.

The first train shipped out to the USA was 230002, it was a 2-car consisting of DM-DM.

Then two 'Driving Trailer' (DT) cars were shipped out there. They are basically DM cars without motors or any of the traction equipment (so just the cab really).

Then they took 230002, split it in half, added a DT car to each car, thus you ended up with two battery trains:

Unit number 230002; consisting of DM-DT (the video I linked to in post #168 shows it in this configuration, note the very empty underframe on the DT car)
Unit number 230011; consisting of DM-DT

Very confusing I know!

Haven't seen much of 230011 to be honest, not sure what's happened to it!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yes that is correct. The two 2-car US trains only have 1 x DM car each.

The first train shipped out to the USA was 230002, it was a 2-car consisting of DM-DM.

Then two 'Driving Trailer' (DT) cars were shipped out there. They are basically DM cars without motors or any of the traction equipment (so just the cab really).

Then they took 230002, split it in half, added a DT car to each car, thus you ended up with two battery trains:

Unit number 230002; consisting of DM-DT (the video I linked to in post #168 shows it in this configuration, note the very empty underframe on the DT car)
Unit number 230011; consisting of DM-DT

Very confusing I know!

Haven't seen much of 230011 to be honest, not sure what's happened to it!

I stand corrected. As far as I am aware, the other nine units do have two DMs

 

[Woods]

I stand corrected. As far as I am aware, the other nine units do have two DMs

No worries, there were so many changes over the evolution of the Class 230 / D-Train 'product' that it was hard to keep up, even for the people involved!

And yes that's right, all the other units built by Vivarail have two DM cars (with the TfW units, and the GWR unit, also having an intermediate trailer car).

 

[wickham]

Regarding the mention above regarding the graffitti on at least one of the 230 cars at Reading - this was done at Reading as I saw all the cars there on 10.08.23 and they were all completely clean. One wonders how these people get into these places as they are mostly very secure - just try getting in to take a completely harmless photograph - there will be no chance !!

 

[Woods]

Regarding the mention above regarding the graffitti on at least one of the 230 cars at Reading - this was done at Reading as I saw all the cars there on 10.08.23 and they were all completely clean. One wonders how these people get into these places as they are mostly very secure - just try getting in to take a completely harmless photograph - there will be no chance !!

230001 was covered in graffiti earlier this year at Bletchley (during the period when Vivarail was in administration and ownership of the unit was being transferred to GWR). All the more amazing because it was inside a supposedly locked shed at the time - the 'artists' broke in and seemingly got away with it because CCTV didn't pick them up! Defied security as well. Hoping it doesn't happen again when the unit eventually moves to Reading.

 

[The_Train]

seems to be this.
230002: 300002, 300111
230011: 300011, 300102

Sorry for the delayed response but thanks for this

Does anybody know what happened to carriage 300202 from 230002?

 

[Dstock7080]

Does anybody know what happened to carriage 300202 from 230002?

300202 (ex-17091) scrapped 7/10/2022

 

[The_Train]

300202 (ex-17091) scrapped 7/10/2022

Thanks a lot
One final question for tonight - any idea where it was scrapped please?

 

[DCtrains]

Apparently Wards, Ilkeston

 

[The_Train]

Apparently Wards, Ilkeston

Perfect, thanks so much

 

[TurboMan]

Mainline testing (Long Marston - Honeybourne - Moreton in Marsh) now planned for Mon/Weds/Fri of w/c 5th Feb, Mon/Weds of w/c 12th Feb, followed by the move to Reading TCD on Friday 16th Feb. Then a move from Reading to West Ealing w/c 26th Feb.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Sorry for the delayed response but thanks for this

Does anybody know what happened to carriage 300202 from 230002?

From the little memory I have 230002 was to be to the same spec as 230001 but not sure if was ever cleared for Network Rail operation. I think it was around the time Vivarail were intending to dump diesel engines and 230002 was roaded to Bo Ness in Autumn 2018 along with a container of batteries and demonstrated as a battery-electric unit.
This was pretty much as the fore runner to 230001 in it's Ealing-Greenford guise.

In April 2021 Bob Price posted on this forum that 230002 has been or was being exported to the USA

 

[Bob Price]

Yes it has been. This is it in Pennsylvania

 

[Invincible]

Vivarail introduces battery-powered train in US

Vivarail has introduced a battery-powered train in the US by retrofitting railcars with Lithion Battery's Valence battery modules.

www.railway-technology.com

Was to provide low cost urban battery trains in US, but never worked out.
Hope the GWR service in Ealing works well.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes it has been. This is it in Pennsylvania

Shame that one didn't work out, but Vivarail's subsequent administration probably sank that one. At least the electric incarnations of the 230 seem to be fairly more reliable (well, at least the IOW ones are!).

 

[Wyrleybart]

Shame that one didn't work out, but Vivarail's subsequent administration probably sank that one. At least the electric incarnations of the 230 seem to be fairly more reliable (well, at least the IOW ones are!).

At least Henry Posner III has some hardware over there in Pennsylvania.
Maybe reconstitute some ex NYC, Chicago or Philly metrocars in the same way Vivarail did the D78s ?

 

[danielnez1]

At least Henry Posner III has some hardware over there in Pennsylvania.
Maybe reconstitute some ex NYC, Chicago or Philly metrocars in the same way Vivarail did the D78s ?

I suspect that the Vivarail unit would have always been a one-off to demonstrate the feasibility of the concept. Ex US Metro/Subway cars wold probably be more desirable for a production fleet given the bigger loading gauge over there and spare parts availability.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Much as I don’t think 230s are great, god knows GWR need whatever spare Turbos they can get right now.

 

[Benjwri]

Much as I don’t think 230s are great, god knows GWR need whatever spare Turbos they can get right now.

The 230 is going to have a turbo on standby at all times, so it unfortunately isn’t actually helping.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The 230 is going to have a turbo on standby at all times, so it unfortunately isn’t actually helping.

The backup Networker Turbo won't be clocking up the hours though.

Besides would not bothering with the 230 be better ?. No because then you are never going to get near to freeing up a Networker Turbo in the long term. Another hope/plus is that we learn more about battery fast charge technology.

Should have stuck with Steam perhaps !.

 

[Invincible]

I suspect that the Vivarail unit would have always been a one-off to demonstrate the feasibility of the concept. Ex US Metro/Subway cars wold probably be more desirable for a production fleet given the bigger loading gauge over there and spare parts availability.

The advantage of the 230 is the aluminium body is more like lightweight so better suited for battery operation, but so far no takers in the US.