GWR Class 800

[Bikeman78]

I would contend that having one trolley to serve 600+ passengers would be inadequate anyway.

Are all trains supposed to have a trolley? Travelled from Newport to Paddington at 1140 on Sunday and didn't see a trolley at all.

 

[PHILIPE]

Are all trains supposed to have a trolley? Travelled from Newport to Paddington at 1140 on Sunday and didn't see a trolley at all.

Yes, by and large. It is a regular occurrence on Sundays for catering to be missing due to no staff available

 

[83G/84D]

Is that actually true, that the 9 car 802`s will virtually never see use west of Plymouth and can you provide confirmation of this.

Unless plans change there are a few booked 9 car class 800 diagrams to Plymouth & Penzance on Sundays from mid September.

 

[Fearless]

The one time I travelled on an 800 though, the PIS was wrong, the service was being terminated early at Bristol due to lack of staff but the announcements about its original destination kept coming. They were not manually corrected. I imagine a few people may have been in for a shock when they reached Bristol.

This is what I feel so strongly about, particularly on behalf of disabled people. Even "invisible" disabilities such as chronic fatigue can make travelling hugely difficult, and having to face sudden upheaval without warning can be extremely traumatic for disabled passengers. I was so grateful for the opportunity to meet with GWR's disabled-access chap and talk about all this. Luckily he's on our side.

 

[Charlie M.]

This is what I feel so strongly about, particularly on behalf of disabled people. Even "invisible" disabilities such as chronic fatigue can make travelling hugely difficult, and having to face sudden upheaval without warning can be extremely traumatic for disabled passengers. I was so grateful for the opportunity to meet with GWR's disabled-access chap and talk about all this. Luckily he's on our side.

I heard that a couple of units are in for mods, including Reservation and PIS information. I understand the frustration among people with hidden disabilities: when they do not have there reservations available, it says the wrong destination etc. However GWR do speak strongly (if you are an apprentice at least) of disabilities.

 

[D1009]

In the very limited 802 runs timed so far the superiority over 800 performance is readily apparent. At least 30-60s gained on each acceleration. Useful on any line with lots of stops and recovering from delays on the single line. Cotswolds perhaps?! We'll soon see when the 802s make an appearance there.

That is very interesting, the info made available so far on here is that the class 800 software was modified so that the full 940hp was available in the lower speed ranges so it was possible to maintain HST schedules on the reduced electrified network. I don't therefore understand why there should be any difference between the 800 and 802 on acceleration from the start.

Not sure what happened on the restart from Par or indeed Bodmin on the return. My notes say that the engine under my coach (B, 9 of 10) was re-started at Liskeard.

A friend of mine on the same train mentioned an announcement was made at Bodmin Parkway advising passengers intending to alight at Liskeard to move to the front set, which may have caused a delay.

Start stop times may not look impressive but this was mainly down to slow approaches along each platform. This will surely improve with practice. How precise do the stops have to be?

I think they must have to be more precise so the automatic door release works properly, but I was talking to a driver earlier this week who was saying how much easier the brakes were to handle compared to an HST, in fact he said that the IET was a lovely train to drive.

 

[rftorf]

I have to say that I am a fan of the 800s. I'm currenty on the 1B88 to Swansea. We appear to be running on diesel, not hit 100 yet and just been overtaken outside Reading by a XC Voyager. Oh .wind we are 6 minutes late already. Not good when you only have 15 minutes for your connection at Cardiff. No catering on the train either yet (I'm in first class by these way). Catering has just started at Didcot.

 

[dp21]

Anyone got any photos/details of 800103 which has allegedly been vinyled in LNER colours?

 

[broadgage]

About 30 short formed IETs today. All due to train faults according to the GWR journey check website.
Advocates of the new trains will of course state that this is not due to any failings of the trains themselves but is due to various other factors.
They may well be correct in this, but nevertheless the average passenger observes many 5 car IETs on services previously run by full length HSTs, and simply states that the new trains are worse.
Hard seats an no buffet merely add to the general feeling that DMUs are a downgrade if compared to "proper trains"

 

[Charlie M.]

About 30 short formed IETs today. All due to train faults according to the GWR journey check website.
Advocates of the new trains will of course state that this is not due to any failings of the trains themselves but is due to various other factors.
They may well be correct in this, but nevertheless the average passenger observes many 5 car IETs on services previously run by full length HSTs, and simply states that the new trains are worse.
Hard seats an no buffet merely add to the general feeling that DMUs are a downgrade if compared to "proper trains"

They are not all faults tough, 2 are away on training work and they are currently one HST to IET short. 1 is in for minor mods. 4 down.

 

[D1009]

They are not all faults tough, 2 are away on training work and they are currently one HST to IET short. 1 is in for minor mods. 4 down.

No doubt Broadgage and others count the number of short forms on journey check every day, and then post the same stuff on here irrespective of the replies.

 

[Bikeman78]

Are station-to-station journeys slower?

That depends how close together the stations are! For example, an HST can do Bristol Parkway to Swindon in around 22 minutes. A diesel IET has no chance of doing that. Fortunately that section will soon be electrified.

 

[Bikeman78]

I was on 1P12 the 05:28 Hereford to Paddington this morning, between Oxford & Reading. Booked for a 9 car 800 but it was only 5 vice 9 today (800012).

ECS was supposed to pick up TM & Catering Crew from Newport but somehow got routed direct to Hereford at Maindy Jn. TM & Crew had to chase it to Hereford in a Taxi! (Insert favourite ‘enter the clowns’ circus type music here ) hence the late start.
Very good effort to be RT by M-in-M!

Surely it stopped at Cwmbran to pick up the crew? That's a much shorter car journey, mainly along a fast road.

 

[broadgage]

No doubt Broadgage and others count the number of short forms on journey check every day, and then post the same stuff on here irrespective of the replies.

I avoid daily or frequent posts simply repeating the number of short formations, anyone wanting to know this can look on journey check.
I do however post when the situation is worse than normal, or sometimes in reply to those who state that the new units are wonderful and that short formations are in fact fine.
I recall a lot of very expensive advertising that featured new and longer trains.

I have made several trips on the 17-30 from Paddington to Taunton. Each one has been half length and overcrowded with reservations not valid. I have now reverted to the 18-03, which is still a proper full length train with reservations.
No matter how good may be the reasons for short formations, very few ordinary customers consider new shorter trains to be an improvement.

 

[tbtc]

About 30 short formed IETs today. All due to train faults according to the GWR journey check website.
Advocates of the new trains will of course state that this is not due to any failings of the trains themselves but is due to various other factors.
They may well be correct in this

...of course, all other classes of trains introduced in the UK in recent years are famous for having perfect reliability from day one (despite staff having to learn them etc).

This seems to happen with any "new" trains - we had loads of updates about every failed/ delayed 319 around Manchester a couple of years ago - then the reliability settled down, as it always does, as they become known-knowns.

Reliability issues with the 800/801s are going to be picked up more than problems with other stock, because there are a significant proportion of enthusiasts who are going to be looking for reasons to complain about them and because the routes that they operate on are fairly high profile.

At least with a short formed 80x you still have 130m of carriages - I'm not saying that it's great but at least something.

 

[ainsworth74]

Anyone know what HST reliability was like when they were first introduced rather than after forty years of institutional experience?

 

[Charlie M.]

I avoid daily or frequent posts simply repeating the number of short formations, anyone wanting to know this can look on journey check.
I do however post when the situation is worse than normal, or sometimes in reply to those who state that the new units are wonderful and that short formations are in fact fine.
I recall a lot of very expensive advertising that featured new and longer trains.

I have made several trips on the 17-30 from Paddington to Taunton. Each one has been half length and overcrowded with reservations not valid. I have now reverted to the 18-03, which is still a proper full length train with reservations.
No matter how good may be the reasons for short formations, very few ordinary customers consider new shorter trains to be an improvement.

I have to agree the 17:30 could be one of the worst services to short form, luckily at the moment, it is summer and all short forms are not as effected. I am glad my 17:49 to Cheltenham is back to HST.

Let’s hope that GWR has the right amount of stock fairly soon? And then sort out staff? And then the new timetable? GWRs managment are hiding and need to tell what they are doing to fix this awful service.

 

[dp21]

Anyone know what HST reliability was like when they were first introduced rather than after forty years of institutional experience?

Don't think that matters because it would invalidate the arguments against the 800s..... #satire

The HST reliability has, however, dropped by about 30% in the last 4 years to a level similar to the 800s yet are celebrated as being hugely reliable despite never having reached reliability levels actually considered impressive.

I know I'll upset the HST fan club but the facts are the facts. The LNER HSTs are operating at nearly double the reliability of those on the west interestingly enough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know I'll upset the HST fan club but the facts are the facts. The LNER HSTs are operating at nearly double the reliability of those on the west interestingly enough.

This could well be because GWR these days is mostly a regional stopping service to Bristol, whereas LNER is still "proper" IC, so they do less stopping and starting which isn't great for them.

 

[dp21]

This could well be because GWR these days is mostly a regional stopping service to Bristol, whereas LNER is still "proper" IC, so they do less stopping and starting which isn't great for them.

Yup, a good point. Running smoothly at a relatively constant speed for longer periods of time does tend to be more favourable.

 

[broadgage]

Anyone know what HST reliability was like when they were first introduced rather than after forty years of institutional experience?

Patchy to say the best.
Not really comparable though, HST failures generally resulted in a full length loco hauled set being substituted, rather than the half length trains that result from IET non availability.

 

[Journeyman]

Yup, a good point. Running smoothly at a relatively constant speed for longer periods of time does tend to be more favourable.

...which they won't be doing on the Highland Main Line, so I suspect the problems will persist.

 

[jyte]

Yup, a good point. Running smoothly at a relatively constant speed for longer periods of time does tend to be more favourable.

Interesting because the stopping all shacks York/London services are more often run by HSTs than 225s from personal experience.

 

[dp21]

Patchy to say the best.
Not really comparable though, HST failures generally resulted in a full length loco hauled set being substituted, rather than the half length trains that result from IET non availability.

Also, back in BR days you had more spare stock kicking around whereas in modern times you tend to sweat the assets more and have higher availability requirements.

I think some of the figures given to me were around the 85% mark back then vice 95-98% these days. I can only speak for my personal experience and region.

Anyway, we digress somewhat from the topic at hand. I will be interested to see how the 9-car reliability varies from the 5-car and whether there is any amount of redundancy which allows them to continue where as 5 car would have to be pulled.

 

[jyte]

Also, back in BR days you had more spare stock kicking around whereas in modern times you tend to sweat the assets more and have higher availability requirements.

I think some of the figures given to me were around the 85% mark back then vice 95-98% these days. I can only speak for my personal experience and region.

Anyway, we digress somewhat from the topic at hand. I will be interested to see how the 9-car reliability varies from the 5-car and whether there is any amount of redundancy which allows them to continue where as 5 car would have to be pulled.

I'm guessing if a 5 car looses 2 engines it's useless, but if a 9 car looses 2 it could limp along....

 

[irish_rail]

5.53 Plymouth to Paddington cancelled today apatently because the 2 x 802s couldn't be split on depot last night which presumably prevented certain checks tests being completed.
Viva the 5 car revolution. Praying that some 9 cars end up on the wofe route and we are not shafted forever with exclusively lots and lots of 5 car sets.....
Am holding my breath now for someone to finally come out and admit that too many 5 cars compared to 9 cars have been ordered, but I think I'll be waiting a while....

 

[FGW_DID]

About 30 short formed IETs today. All due to train faults according to the GWR journey check website.
Advocates of the new trains will of course state that this is not due to any failings of the trains themselves but is due to various other factors.
They may well be correct in this, but nevertheless the average passenger observes many 5 car IETs on services previously run by full length HSTs, and simply states that the new trains are worse.
Hard seats an no buffet merely add to the general feeling that DMUs are a downgrade if compared to "proper trains"

No, there were only 8 short formed IET formations today! This affected approx 40 odd services.

There were 3x 5 vice 9 and 5x 5 vice 10 formations.

Just taking into consideration the 9 car formations mentioned above, if you had your much vaunted fixed rake formations, you would be unable to split them to provide cover for the three 9 car diagrams uncovered therefore you would be looking at least 15 services cancelled.

If all the 5 vice 10 formations mentioned were fixed 10 car and were unavailable for traffic there’s a further 29 services cancelled!

So yes I would say pretty good for fleet flexibility and whilst not good for the passenger travelling on it, I would expect they, like me this morning, would rather have the 5 car vice 9 that turned up for my train into work then no train at all!

 

[JN114]

No, there were only 8 short formed IET formations today! This affected approx 40 odd services.

There were 3x 5 vice 9 and 5x 5 vice 10 formations.

Just taking into consideration the 9 car formations mentioned above, if you had your much vaunted fixed rake formations, you would be unable to split them to provide cover for the three 9 car diagrams uncovered therefore you would be looking at least 15 services cancelled.

If all the 5 vice 10 formations mentioned were fixed 10 car and were unavailable for traffic there’s a further 29 services cancelled!

So yes I would say pretty good for fleet flexibility and whilst not good for the passenger travelling on it, I would expect they, like me this morning, would rather have the 5 car vice 9 that turned up for my train into work then no train at all!

Don’t be silly - if they were all fixed formations we’d be phoning you asking for a spare Turbo to work an Oxford... They’d never cancel a precious Bristol or Swansea train!

 

[D1009]

I avoid daily or frequent posts simply repeating the number of short formations, anyone wanting to know this can look on journey check.
I do however post when the situation is worse than normal, or sometimes in reply to those who state that the new units are wonderful and that short formations are in fact fine.

Why do you post on here, though? Surely if you have a complaint or are unhappy with the service you have received you should contact GWR directly, who may be able to offer you compensation. I post on here in the hope that I might learn something of what is actually happening rather than what GWR tell me, but you do not seem to accept any of the replies you have received.

I recall a lot of very expensive advertising that featured new and longer trains.

Which for the most part has been delivered.

I have made several trips on the 17-30 from Paddington to Taunton. Each one has been half length and overcrowded with reservations not valid. I have now reverted to the 18-03, which is still a proper full length train with reservations.
No matter how good may be the reasons for short formations, very few ordinary customers consider new shorter trains to be an improvement.

Why, if travelling from London to Taunton, would you opt to travel on a train taking an hour and a quarter longer than one that left half an hour behind it, and that is ignoring the perceived overcrowding? That doesn't sound like an "ordinary customer".

 

[FGW_DID]

Don’t be silly - if they were all fixed formations we’d be phoning you asking for a spare Turbo to work an Oxford... They’d never cancel a precious Bristol or Swansea train!

Ha ha fair one

Of course, we would also have to make sure that there was only a 2 car available