GWR Class 800

[Railperf]

putting that degraded unit out on that diagram was inadvisable.

Insightful and honest as always Clarence. Thanks very much. Would I be right in thinking that thea degraded unit would more likely be allocated to Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads diagrams? Or Cotswold runs?

 

[irish_rail]

Apparently a couple of iets have had their engines shut down after being hit by waves at Dawlish. Not sure on how true this is so don't shoot the messenger

 

[Three-Nine]

A work colleague with a slight bias against these trains has sent me a similar message regards one IET this afternoon. As often with these events, its unclear at present if the waves are the direct cause or not.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Reported elsewhere that two have been affected. One had 5 of the 6 shut down and terminated at Exeter. The other had 3 of 5 and although carried on after a 30 min delay and is now on its way to Bristol rather than London.

 

[tiptoptaff]

They were 800s not the West of England (Dawlish proof) 802s. Not yet known why 800s were sent beyond Exeter on WoE diagrams.

 

[Railperf]

They were 800s not the West of England (Dawlish proof) 802s. Not yet known why 800s were sent beyond Exeter on WoE diagrams.

I'm not sure all the 802s are allocated exclusively on West of England services beyond Exeter. Neither are all the HSTs. So something has to fill the gap.

 

[ainsworth74]

They were 800s not the West of England (Dawlish proof) 802s. Not yet known why 800s were sent beyond Exeter on WoE diagrams.

They should all be Dawlish proof as per the IEP Train Technical Specification:

Full Functionality of the IEP Trains must be maintained during and after exposure to salt water spray and such exposure must not cause excessive cosmetic degradation of exposed surfaces, components and equipment.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The engines are under the train though, so it may depend on how you define “spray”. It doesn’t say a complete dousing, so Hitachi may have some wriggle room there.

 

[PaulEXRY]

800018 + 800026 1A88 1204 PZ-PAD
Declared failed at EXD shortly after arrival at 1458.
Blocked out platform 5 until 1740 departure 5Z74 to Stoke Gifford.

 

[PHILIPE]

The engines are under the train though, so it may depend on how you define “spray”. It doesn’t say a complete dousing, so Hitachi may have some wriggle room there.

Wrong sort of spray

 

[JN114]

They’ve been over Dawlish in much worse weather, including direct wave strikes without engines shutting down. I suspect there’s likely a lot more to it.

 

[irish_rail]

I suspect this may be the last we see of 800s (as opposed to 802s ) west of Exeter.

 

[tomglazed]

I believe it was mentioned earlier up the thread that the 800's were being or have been modified to have larger fuel tanks to match the 802's. With this, the seat covering changes, engine uprating and more, could it not make sense to add whatever weatherproofing the 802's have also to the 800's? May as well make the 800's be as similar to the 802's, aka a train GWR has far more input into and potentially favour.

 

[HowardGWR]

Wrong sort of spray

Try 'Wrong sort of waves' then, perhaps?

 

[jimm]

I believe it was mentioned earlier up the thread that the 800's were being or have been modified to have larger fuel tanks to match the 802's. With this, the seat covering changes, engine uprating and more, could it not make sense to add whatever weatherproofing the 802's have also to the 800's? May as well make the 800's be as similar to the 802's, aka a train GWR has far more input into and potentially favour.

As has already been pointed out above, the technical specification for the trains ordered under the InterCity Express Programme contracts - ie the Class 800 and 801 - required them to have design features to avoid the sort of problems that affect the Voyagers in soggy conditions on the Devon coast.

The 802s are no different from the other two types of 80x in this respect.

I suspect this may be the last we see of 800s (as opposed to 802s ) west of Exeter.

Talk about rushing to judgement...

 

[irish_rail]

As has already been pointed out above, the technical specification for the trains ordered under the InterCity Express Programme contracts - ie the Class 800 and 801 - required them to have design features to avoid the sort of problems that affect the Voyagers in soggy conditions on the Devon coast.

The 802s are no different from the other two types of 80x in this respect.



Talk about rushing to judgement...

Why would Hitachi / gwr risk it?? What is the benefit? Plenty of 9 car 802s coming on stream now, send them down instead of 800s

 

[404250]

As has already been pointed out above, the technical specification for the trains ordered under the InterCity Express Programme contracts - ie the Class 800 and 801 - required them to have design features to avoid the sort of problems that affect the Voyagers in soggy conditions on the Devon coast.

The 802s are no different from the other two types of 80x in this respect.

So what exactly is the difference between them after the 800s have had mods?

 

[Goldfish62]

As has already been pointed out above, the technical specification for the trains ordered under the InterCity Express Programme contracts - ie the Class 800 and 801 - required them to have design features to avoid the sort of problems that affect the Voyagers in soggy conditions on the Devon coast.

The 802s are no different from the other two types of 80x in this respect.



Talk about rushing to judgement...

I thought the 802s have raised resistor banks on the roof to prevent them getting waterlogged, whereas 800s don't.

 

[TractiveEffort]

I thought the 802s have raised resistor banks on the roof to prevent them getting waterlogged, whereas 800s don't.

800’s have their resistor banks on the roof, they are smaller and not used when running in diesel mode, (they are just to cope with neutral sections) whereas the 802’s, as they were designed to do more diesel running, had the larger resistor banks fitted to allow dynamic braking in diesel mode.

 

[Phil G]

Well still running this morning and bang on time!

 

[Goldfish62]

800’s have their resistor banks on the roof, they are smaller and not used when running in diesel mode, (they are just to cope with neutral sections) whereas the 802’s, as they were designed to do more diesel running, had the larger resistor banks fitted to allow dynamic braking in diesel mode.

Yes, I know the 800s also have them on the roof, but as I understand the ones on the 802s are raised to prevent flooding.

 

[Grumbler]

Apropos of nothing in particular - is it possible for an 800 to be coupled to an 802 for passenger service?

 

[samuelmorris]

Yes I'm quite shocked to see the A30 as well as several other major roads in Cornwall rendered impassable but yet pretty trivial delays to GWR services all day.

 

[Goldfish62]

Apropos of nothing in particular - is it possible for an 800 to be coupled to an 802 for passenger service?

Apparently not.

 

[JN114]

Apropos of nothing in particular - is it possible for an 800 to be coupled to an 802 for passenger service?

No, software is different. They can rescue one another in emergency.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently not.

Excuse me while I have hysterics. They knew full well the two would need to work together so this is a grossly incompetent piece of design.

 

[samuelmorris]

I wonder what the reasoning is. Surely there isn't such a difference between the DfT spec and GWR's own spec that necessitated a complete redo of the train management software?

 

[Grumbler]

Would it not make sense at some future date to transfer the 800s to a different franchise and order more 802s for the GWR?

 

[samuelmorris]

Would it not make sense at some future date to transfer the 800s to a different franchise and order more 802s for the GWR?

Does the contract even permit that? I'm sure routes that currently see sprinters would see them as a welcome improvement, but I don't think for a minute that any of the DfT-spec 800s are likely to go anywhere other than their intended routes.

Further, there isn't really much point. Performance is supposed to have been corrected on 800s to match 802s even on diesel mode. Ordering more 802s would still be inheriting the fundamental design cues of the DfT spec that attract so much negativity, and any such order also has to be approved by the DfT in the first place - remember the 802s were only permitted in the first place if they were not demonstrably superior to 800s.

 

[JN114]

The engine performance; and management of it; is completely different between the two classes.

That’s controlled from the on train software.

While the DfT have allowed some unmuzzling of the 800s; it’s not to the degree the 802s have been opened up for West of England services.

Therefore 2 versions of the software have to exist; one for 800s, one for 802s.

Therefore the trains will not talk to one another.