GWR Dec 19 timetable

[nw1]

Hi,

Saw on the recent "open access to Cardiff using class 91s" thread a proposed timetable for Paddington departures in December.

It was:
00,03,07,10*,15,18,20,25*,30,33,37,40*,45,48,50,55* (* = Heathrow Express)

Just speculating on what these might translate to, I'd guess something like:

00 - Cardiff/Swansea?
03 - Devon/Cornwall as now
07 - Bedwyn as now
15 - Additional fast Bristol via Bristol Parkway?
18 - Bristol via Bath?
20 - Oxford/Worcester as now
30 - Cardiff/Swansea?
33 - Cheltenham?
37 - Additional Newbury, fast to Reading and then all stations, using 387s?
45 - Additional fast Bristol via Bristol Parkway?
48 - Bristol via Bath?
50 - Oxford/Worcester as now

Any definitive answer on this?

 

[II]

Hi,
Any definitive answer on this?

Off-Peak planned to be:
00 - Bristol TM (via Bath)
03 - Plymouth or Penzance
07 - Bedwyn
15 - Bristol TM (via Parkway)
18 - Cardiff Central
20 - Oxford
30 - Bristol TM (via Bath)
33 - Cheltenham
37 - Alternate hours Exeter/Plymouth/Paignton semi-fast (IET) or Newbury fast via Reading (387)
45 - Bristol TM (via Parkway)
48 - Swansea
50 - Oxford/North Cotswolds Line

Some changes in the peaks mean generally the xx:15s run as a third train to South Wales (first stop Bristol Parkway) and the xx:45 past doesn't run but there's an extra service service to Bristol just ahead of the xx:00 Bristol's which is first stop Chippenham. Lots of other little tweaks in the peaks as well. Around twenty-five trains a day in each direction will omit Reading!

 

[Nunners]

Do we know yet what will happen to the local Swindon-Cheltenhams as the Pads will go up to an hour? I know in the franchise spec they have to keep the ones to/from Southampton

 

[II]

Do we know yet what will happen to the local Swindon-Cheltenhams as the Pads will go up to an hour? I know in the franchise spec they have to keep the ones to/from Southampton

Just a down service in the morning peak, an up service in the evening peak, and two later evening down services (including the last of the day) and one later evening up service.

Paddington to Gloucester (as well as being direct hourly) will reduce to as little as 1h 42m and Cheltenham to 1h 56m.

 

[Nunners]

Just a down service in the morning peak, an up service in the evening peak, and two later evening down services (including the last of the day) and one later evening up service.

Paddington to Gloucester (as well as being direct hourly) will reduce to as little as 1h 42m and Cheltenham to 1h 56m.

Thanks

 

[DaveHarries]

Off-Peak planned to be:
00 - Bristol TM (via Bath)
03 - Plymouth or Penzance
07 - Bedwyn
15 - Bristol TM (via Parkway)
18 - Cardiff Central
20 - Oxford
30 - Bristol TM (via Bath)
33 - Cheltenham
37 - Alternate hours Exeter/Plymouth/Paignton semi-fast (IET) or Newbury fast via Reading (387)
45 - Bristol TM (via Parkway)
48 - Swansea
50 - Oxford/North Cotswolds Line

Some changes in the peaks mean generally the xx:15s run as a third train to South Wales (first stop Bristol Parkway) and the xx:45 past doesn't run but there's an extra service service to Bristol just ahead of the xx:00 Bristol's which is first stop Chippenham. Lots of other little tweaks in the peaks as well. Around twenty-five trains a day in each direction will omit Reading!

Golly. Out of those Bristol stoppers how many (if any) per hour will call at Didcot Parkway? Same as at present (ie. 1tph)?

Dave

 

[II]

Golly. Out of those Bristol stoppers how many (if any) per hour will call at Didcot Parkway? Same as at present (ie. 1tph)?

Pretty much the same as now off-peak, with the xx:00 Bristol calling, the xx:18 Cardiff calling, and the xx:33 Cheltenham. Only difference is the Cheltenhams are running every hour, so there's no need to stop an Oxford every other hour instead.

 

[I13]

Do you know how much later after the 00/30 are the 15/45 meant to arrive into Temple Meads? Can't be very long.

 

[II]

Do you know how much later after the 00/30 are the 15/45 meant to arrive into Temple Meads? Can't be very long.

The provisional times suggest the xx:15 will generally arrive before the xx:00 by about three minutes. The xx:45 generally arrive four minutes after the xx:30.

 

[I13]

The provisional times suggest the xx:15 will generally arrive before the xx:00 by about three minutes. The xx:45 generally arrive four minutes after the xx:30.

Interesting, thanks. I wonder if the 00 will be advertised as to Bath at Paddington. What does it look like towards Paddington from Bristol - is there also overtaking?

 

[Ianno87]

Interesting, thanks. I wonder if the 00 will be advertised as to Bath at Paddington. What does it look like towards Paddington from Bristol - is there also overtaking?

Doubt it - Advances would be sold on every train, plus what's the point for only 3 minutes' disbenefit? Better to spread the load across all 4 Bristol trains.

 

[GW43125]

Apologies if I've missed something, but will there continue to be some extensions of the Bristols to Weston/Taunton/Exeter or are these being replaced by better connectivity into local services?

 

[II]

What does it look like towards Paddington from Bristol - is there also overtaking?

00/23/30/53 on the way back from Temple Meads, with the 23/53 the ones routed via Parkway, so no overtaking there.

Apologies if I've missed something, but will there continue to be some extensions of the Bristols to Weston/Taunton/Exeter or are these being replaced by better connectivity into local services?

Yes, still through trains. Seven per day from Paddington to Weston with three extensions to Taunton, with one of those continuing to Exeter (the last one). Some pretty nippy running on them as well, with four of them first stop Bristol Parkway to give a journey time of around 1h 45m for one of them from Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare, even better the other way with one scheduled at 1h 42m. As long as NR can validate them of course. Table 125 is looking very impressive, less so Table 135, though that also has its moments!

 

[I13]

00/23/30/53 on the way back from Temple Meads, with the 23/53 the ones routed via Parkway, so no overtaking there.

Thanks. Prior to this thread I was expecting a similar spread, with the via Parkway running just before the via Bath, out of Paddington.

Anyway, looking forward to it.

 

[HowardGWR]

00/23/30/53 on the way back from Temple Meads, with the 23/53 the ones routed via Parkway, so no overtaking there.



Yes, still through trains. Seven per day from Paddington to Weston with three extensions to Taunton, with one of those continuing to Exeter (the last one). Some pretty nippy running on them as well, with four of them first stop Bristol Parkway to give a journey time of around 1h 45m for one of them from Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare, even better the other way with one scheduled at 1h 42m. As long as NR can validate them of course. Table 125 is looking very impressive, less so Table 135, though that also has its moments!

Where are these timetable details available please, or are you an insider, perhaps?

 

[CharlesR]

It’s known public knowledge from the franchise proposed December 2018 timetable that has been postponed this year. More info is probably insider knowledge.

 

[II]

Indeed, much of it has been specified and speculated about before, but the timings I have are from 'insider' details as we approach the final stages of the timetables before they will be validated by NR (no doubt with the odd change, but hopefully not many), published and then of course implemented in December.

 

[CharlesR]

Indeed, much of it has been specified and speculated about before, but the timings I have are from 'insider' details as we approach the final stages of the timetables before they will be validated by NR (no doubt with the odd change, but hopefully not many), published and then of course implemented in December.

I am certainly excited to see it finally in action after years of speculation and improvement work.

 

[Noddy]

Indeed, much of it has been specified and speculated about before, but the timings I have are from 'insider' details as we approach the final stages of the timetables before they will be validated by NR (no doubt with the odd change, but hopefully not many), published and then of course implemented in December.

Any idea how long before they are likely to be published and in the public domain?

 

[PHILIPE]

Any idea how long before they are likely to be published and in the public domain?

Possibly September. There could be details in RTT but not finalised.

 

[nw1]

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing the 387 to Newbury will be timed to give a self contained diagram though the turn around at both ends might be a bit tight? Or perhaps, in the hours it runs, it will interwork with the Reading Newbury stoppers?

Interesting they've gone for the clockface 00,15,30,45 all being Temple Means services even though the via-Parkway services catch up or even, in one case, overtake the via-Bath ones.
I'd have said it would make more sense for Bristol Parkway to get the 15-minute clockface, as it can be achieved without one train catching up the other too much.

Wonder if they'll still retain the xx18/xx48 peak 'fast Didcot' extras?

 

[hwl]

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing the 387 to Newbury will be timed to give a self contained diagram though the turn around at both ends might be a bit tight? Or perhaps, in the hours it runs, it will interwork with the Reading Newbury stoppers?

Interesting they've gone for the clockface 00,15,30,45 all being Temple Means services even though the via-Parkway services catch up or even, in one case, overtake the via-Bath ones.
I'd have said it would make more sense for Bristol Parkway to get the 15-minute clockface, as it can be achieved without one train catching up the other too much.

Wonder if they'll still retain the xx18/xx48 peak 'fast Didcot' extras?

I suspect the aim is almost for the Parkway ones to catch/overtake to even out loadings and encourage TM passengers to on the via Parkway services.

 

[Flinn Reed]

I think GWR mentioned that engineering works around Bristol would enable the London-Parkway-TempleMeads services to be reduced in journey time - quoted as 1 hour 15 mins. This is as a result of doubling the tracks between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads, with non-stop services using a separate track to the stopping services.

Is this reduced journey time likely to be implemented as part of the Dec19 timetable change?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

This is as a result of doubling the tracks between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads

Whilst this is strictly speaking accurate, it would have been perhaps a little clearer to say "increasing to 4 the number of tracks..." - the section has had at least double track since time immemorial (well, nearly!)

 

[HowardGWR]

I suspect the aim is almost for the Parkway ones to catch/overtake to even out loadings and encourage TM passengers to on the via Parkway services.

Thanks to II for answering my query. Yes, also, it occurs to me now, by those not stopping at Reading, it evens out the loads even more, plus Bristol-bound pax don't have to out up with Reading commuters and in the other direction, airport-bound pax and their luggage.

 

[II]

I think GWR mentioned that engineering works around Bristol would enable the London-Parkway-TempleMeads services to be reduced in journey time - quoted as 1 hour 15 mins. This is as a result of doubling the tracks between Bristol Parkway and Temple Meads, with non-stop services using a separate track to the stopping services.

Is this reduced journey time likely to be implemented as part of the Dec19 timetable change?

The two Paddington to Bristol TM trains per hour via Bristol Parkway (off-peak) are intended to be delivered during the validity of the December 2019 timetable, so not straight-away, but at some point by the following May.

1h 19m is the typical time from London IIRC, and a couple of minutes more the other way.

 

[jimm]

Thanks to II for answering my query. Yes, also, it occurs to me now, by those not stopping at Reading, it evens out the loads even more, plus Bristol-bound pax don't have to out up with Reading commuters and in the other direction, airport-bound pax and their luggage.

What commuters? The extra services running to and from Bristol Temple Meads via Parkway will only operate off-peak.

The peak pattern is different - as II pointed out in post 2 and has been known for four years now and mentioned regularly on the forum since then - and although there will be one extra train per hour on the Bristol route and one on the South Wales route that will not call at Reading, everything else at those times of the day will still do so.

 

[Bikeman78]

The two Paddington to Bristol TM trains per hour via Bristol Parkway (off-peak) are intended to be delivered during the validity of the December 2019 timetable, so not straight-away, but at some point by the following May.

1h 19m is the typical time from London IIRC, and a couple of minutes more the other way.

Why is this? Lack of train crew?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Why is this? Lack of train crew?

It is a sensible approach in my opinion. New timetable, new train fleet, new (faster) sectional running times = performance risk. Not running the fast Bristol trains at first provides a bit of spare capacity in the fleet and some white space in the timetable to allow a bedding in period. They will be introduced as and when performance is regularly achieving sufficiently robust results that they won’t break the service.

 

[Bikeman78]

It is a sensible approach in my opinion. New timetable, new train fleet, new (faster) sectional running times = performance risk. Not running the fast Bristol trains at first provides a bit of spare capacity in the fleet and some white space in the timetable to allow a bedding in period. They will be introduced as and when performance is regularly achieving sufficiently robust results that they won’t break the service.

The flip side is that they'll have to amend unit and train crew diagrams twice in quick succession. It's unlikely those extra Bristol trains will be self contained.