GWR planning Saturday Bristol - Oxford service Sept to Dec 2024

[fishwomp]

Thanks for sharing - it only appears to save 10 minutes versus changing at Didcot. That being said extra trains are always welcome[..]

Only if your connection is made! Having this - albeit only twice a day (hint hint, would like more) - improves connections at Swindon for south wales, particularly Swanseas which mostly don't stop in Didcot.
Current example: OXF-SWA ( avoiding RDG due to extra cost )

Oxf dep: 11:32d
Did: 11:44a -> 11:54d
Swi: 12:09a -> 12:41d
Swa: 14:29a

journey time: 2h57.

September timetable:
Oxf: 12:03d on the Bristol
Swi: 12:32a 12:40d
Swa: 14:32a

Journey time: 2h29.

28 mins saved. (3 mins lost due to longer dwell time for the PAD-SWA at Cardiff, grr..)

2h29 cannot be beaten by car, 2h57 can, easily - and may be more convenient as few people's origin or ultimate destination is the station

 

[Benjwri]

it only appears to save 10 minutes versus changing at Didcot

Along with above point, also worth remembering a lot of people value minimising changes, and the Didcot Turbos are disliked and have a tendency to get very crowded.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Donto be surprised to see east-west services run through to Bristol TM. Saves terminating at Oxford

Absolutely nothing has been suggested about that being the case, particularly as paths don’t exist and 196s don’t have 125mph capabilities either, so that’s rather misleading speculation really.

 

[The exile]

Absolutely nothing has been suggested about that being the case, particularly as paths don’t exist and 196s don’t have 125mph capabilities either, so that’s rather misleading speculation really.

A lot was suggested in that direction (and not just on here) earlier on in the project, though intentions appear to have changed since.

 

[Snow1964]

Absolutely nothing has been suggested about that being the case, particularly as paths don’t exist and 196s don’t have 125mph capabilities either, so that’s rather misleading speculation really.

Nothing is planned short term.

It is not misleading in the sense that the documents that were linked to proposed reopening of Corsham station (and a possible reopening around Lyneham / Wooten Basset) if former RAF airfield was redeveloped all mentioned a possible semi fast from Bristol to Oxford, possibly continuing along East West Rail. I think it assumed line would be electrified and 110mph EMUs in regional configuration would be used.

To best of my knowledge, GWR hasn't yet 'replaced' the three 387s it released, and Chiltern hasn't yet got stock for East-West (just has a 2 year sub-lease on some West Midlands 196s to temporary cover until it gets fleet).

 

[dk1]

Absolutely nothing has been suggested about that being the case, particularly as paths don’t exist and 196s don’t have 125mph capabilities either, so that’s rather misleading speculation really.

From what I read the other day it’s more likely to be operated by the current Chiltern fleet with the 196s remaining in the West Mids.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Nothing is planned short term.

It is not misleading in the sense that the documents that were linked to proposed reopening of Corsham station (and a possible reopening around Lyneham / Wooten Basset) if former RAF airfield was redeveloped all mentioned a possible semi fast from Bristol to Oxford, possibly continuing along East West Rail. I think it assumed line would be electrified and 110mph EMUs in regional configuration would be used.

I think it was misleading in the sense that a) it implied a fairly short term position and b) would primarily be to avoid terminating at Oxford.

The documents you mention are all several years old, nothing has appeared to happen with any of those ideas (or is in the pipeline), and as you say, would probably depend on an electrified East West rail, for which there is no timescale.

So there wasn’t any substance behind the post. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see through services from Bristol to Milton Keynes and maybe even beyond, but it is many years away.

 

[The Planner]

From what I read the other day it’s more likely to be operated by the current Chiltern fleet with the 196s remaining in the West Mids.

That has the potential to bork the timetable then as you could only run 168s and a 196 will be quicker off the blocks.

 

[dk1]

That has the potential to bork the timetable then as you could only run 168s and a 196 will be quicker off the blocks.

I think the line speed is being dropped from that originally envisaged on certain parts of EWR too. I’m expecting 90 rather than 100 as it’s more cost effective.

 

[The Planner]

I think the line speed is being dropped from that originally envisaged on certain parts of EWR too. I’m expecting 90 rather than 100 as it’s more cost effective.

Its 100 HST from Bicester to Bletchley, id be amazed if that got dropped at this point when its effectively built. There is very little saving in it.

 

[dk1]

Its 100 HST from Bicester to Bletchley, id be amazed if that got dropped at this point when its effectively built. There is very little saving in it.

I’m assuming this is beyond that on future sections.

 

[swt_passenger]

I’m assuming this is beyond that on future sections.

The EWR TWA inspector’s report states that the agreed project definition did not include any increases in Bletchley - Bedford line speeds anyway. So nothing there has actually been reduced either. Beyond Bedford I’d suggest anyone would be guessing at this stage.

 

[Wychwood93]

Nothing is planned short term.

It is not misleading in the sense that the documents that were linked to proposed reopening of Corsham station (and a possible reopening around Lyneham / Wooten Basset) if former RAF airfield was redeveloped all mentioned a possible semi fast from Bristol to Oxford, possibly continuing along East West Rail. I think it assumed line would be electrified and 110mph EMUs in regional configuration would be used.

To best of my knowledge, GWR hasn't yet 'replaced' the three 387s it released, and Chiltern hasn't yet got stock for East-West (just has a 2 year sub-lease on some West Midlands 196s to temporary cover until it gets fleet).

Part of the former RAF Lyneham airfield, the NW perimeter, is now a 69.5Mw solar farm :

DTTC Lyneham Solar Farm​

Operator	Defence Infrastructure Organisation
Output	69.50 MW
Repd_id	2203
Source	solar

 

[nw1]

Absolutely nothing has been suggested about that being the case, particularly as paths don’t exist and 196s don’t have 125mph capabilities either, so that’s rather misleading speculation really.

Mind you at one time you had a regular Bristol-Oxford (hourly) operated with Turbos, sharing the line with HSTs.

And of course up to pretty recently the Paddington-Reading Main line was a mix of HSTs, 180s and Turbos, with many services per hour.

 

[Trainman40083]

Just think..Sort out the rebuild of the Oxford station area, complete the electrification from Didcot, include the curve and you could have 387s work Oxford to Swindon... Then just need to sort to Bristol Ten Foot Weeds.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Then just need to sort to Bristol Ten Foot Weeds.

I hope that was unintentional, that’s one of the best autocorrects I’ve seen for a while

 

[The exile]

Mind you at one time you had a regular Bristol-Oxford (hourly) operated with Turbos, sharing the line with HSTs.

And of course up to pretty recently the Paddington-Reading Main line was a mix of HSTs, 180s and Turbos, with many services per hour.

Service frequency on the London trains has increased since then, hasn’t it?

 

[dk1]

Service frequency on the London trains has increased since then, hasn’t it?

Yes quite a bit. At least five 125mph trains each way each hour and that’s before any OA services commence.

 

[Falcon1200]

Mind you at one time you had a regular Bristol-Oxford (hourly)

Was it ever hourly throughout the day though? Post #33 does have some circa 60 minute gaps between trains, but also some 2 hour intervals!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Was it ever hourly throughout the day though? Post #33 does have some circa 60 minute gaps between trains, but also some 2 hour intervals!

That was my initial reaction too but consulting the 1998-99 Winter timetable does show a roughly hourly daytime service between Bicester/Oxford and Bristol. I don’t think it lasted though, my recollection is of a roughly 2-hourly service that declined over several years until withdrawal.

 

[dk1]

That was my initial reaction too but consulting the 1998-99 Winter timetable does show a roughly hourly daytime service between Bicester/Oxford and Bristol. I don’t think it lasted though, my recollection is of a roughly 2-hourly service that declined over several years until withdrawal.

My recollection of it was of several cancellations due to unit reliability.

May have been driver shortages too.

 

[nw1]

Was it ever hourly throughout the day though? Post #33 does have some circa 60 minute gaps between trains, but also some 2 hour intervals!

Ah sorry, missed that earlier post.

I'm sure it was an hourly clockface pattern at one point. I can't remember exactly what year but probably a little before 2001. Perhaps 1999 or so.

Service frequency on the London trains has increased since then, hasn’t it?

True but in the late 90s there were still 2tph Bristol-London at certain times of day, round the peaks, and by 2000 I think there were 2tph all day: which presumably means we have just one more per hour now (the second Cardiff)? Also, as I said they managed to fit a few Turbos on the main line between Paddington and Reading for many years, slotted between HSTs (of which there were 5 per hour). They did this by timing the Turbos to leave Paddington shortly after an HST, so it was still ahead of the next HST by Reading. Swindon could presumably be a point where a London train could overtake a Bristol-Oxford.

 

[The exile]

Swindon could presumably be a point where a London train could overtake a Bristol-Oxford.

Certainly possible, but scheduling it at a busy station with only 3 through platforms might be asking for trouble. Would suggest fettling up some /all of the loops for passenger use (if they’re not already)might be preferable (coupled with restoring the third platform at Chippenham for additional flexibility)

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Certainly possible, but scheduling it at a busy station with only 3 through platforms might be asking for trouble. Would suggest fettling up some /all of the loops for passenger use (if they’re not already)might be preferable (coupled with restoring the third platform at Chippenham for additional flexibility)

The relief lines between Challow and Wantage Road are already cleared for passenger use.

 

[Wychwood93]

The relief lines between Challow and Wantage Road are already cleared for passenger use.

May not need those or Swindon. RTT for 14th September sees, for Oxford/Bristol TM:

Realtime Trains | 1N61 1203 Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads | 14/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 1N61 1203 departure from Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads on 14/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Scheduled for an 80x and the path would appear to be alright. Overall there are 5 mins engineering allowance and 1 for pathing.

A venture into the world of speculation would be that, should the service be popular, an extension south to Taunton/Exeter/Plymouth and north to Banbury (Leamington?)/Bicester could follow at some stage - rolling stock availability etc. permitting.

 

[The Planner]

May not need those or Swindon. RTT for 14th September sees, for Oxford/Bristol TM:

Realtime Trains | 1N61 1203 Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads | 14/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 1N61 1203 departure from Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads on 14/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Scheduled for an 80x and the path would appear to be alright. Overall there are 5 mins engineering allowance and 1 for pathing.

A venture into the world of speculation would be that, should the service be popular, an extension south to Taunton/Exeter/Plymouth and north to Banbury (Leamington?)/Bicester could follow at some stage - rolling stock availability etc. permitting.

No chance of Bicester or Leamington.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Scheduled for an 80x and the path would appear to be alright. Overall there are 5 mins engineering allowance and 1 for pathing.

A venture into the world of speculation would be that, should the service be popular, an extension south to Taunton/Exeter/Plymouth and north to Banbury (Leamington?)/Bicester could follow at some stage - rolling stock availability etc. permitting.

Don't forget that until electrification of the EWR route the only stock realistically available to operate a through service is DMU stock limited to 100mph.

And so the second point becomes very much into the realms of fantasy.

 

[Wychwood93]

No chance of Bicester or Leamington.

Noted and agree. No comment re. a further southward extension also noted - you could have a fast service, or a semi, which would include WSM. The CDF/PNZ could remain as is - as per my previous post, it all depends on stock, paths etc.

Don't forget that until electrification of the EWR route the only stock realistically available to operate a through service is DMU stock limited to 100mph.

And so the second point becomes very much into the realms of fantasy.

The Planner killed (certainly incapacitated) the first bit - the second appears to be, at the moment, somewhat open. It was not quite fantasy - just speculation as to possibility dependant on service use and customer feedback. Sir Humphrey would have liked the last bit!

 

[The Planner]

Noted and agree. No comment re. a further southward extension also noted - you could have a fast service, or a semi, which would include WSM. The CDF/PNZ could remain as is - as per my previous post, it all depends on stock, paths etc.


The Planner killed (certainly incapacitated) the first bit - the second appears to be, at the moment, somewhat open. It was not quite fantasy - just speculation as to possibility dependant on service use and customer feedback. Sir Humphrey would have liked the last bit!

Bicester and Leamington are appalling places to terminate at from the south, Banbury would have legs if it was ever considered.

 

[Class 170101]

Bicester and Leamington are appalling places to terminate at from the south, Banbury would have legs if it was ever considered.

And I'd say Oxford as well.

I'm surprised in a way that the (future) Bristol to Oxford service (as I write this post) and ther current London to Oxford services don't carry on to Banbury and terminate there (or even Stratford Upon Avon which Chiltern don't seem to want anymore).