GWR service opens doors off platform

[Incogcyclist79]

An interesting incident happened on my commute this morning at Trowbridge. I was travelling on 1F07 07:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour formed of 5 coaches (166219 leading 165130).

I was travelling in the rear carriage and upon arrival at Trowbridge I thought we were further back up the platform than normal. After exiting I noticed my doors were only just platformed and the rears weren't, yet had opened. A passenger actually exited these doors and jumped down trackside.

I did notice that the front of the train was stopped at the 3-4 car stop board so 2 questions;

1. Did the driver forget the length of their train?
2. Once the train stops, does the guard have anyway of knowing the train is platformed where it should be before opening the doors or is it assumed?

1F07 eventually left 12 late. What are the protocols for incidents like this, is it reported to control?

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[74A]

Yes it will have been reported. That's why it left 12 late

 

[VP185]

Report to signaller.
Report to control
Check no one has fallen out.
Get back to depot….. lots of paperwork

 

[43066]

1F07 eventually left 12 late. What are the protocols for incidents like this, is it reported to control?

Report to signaller, then go back and check nobody has fallen out. The driver would be asked if they were happy to continue until they could be relieved at a convenient location, interviewed, drug and alcohol tested, put on a performance plan (all depending on prior record).

Get back to depot….. lots of paperwork

And this .

 

[voyagerdude220]

Don't those trains have Conductors working them? If so would they not normally do the doors from the rear of the train?

 

[43066]

Don't those trains have Conductors working them? If so would they not normally do the doors from the rear of the train?

Depending on working arrangements there may well be joint allocation of responsibility between driver and guard.

 

[185]

Think this is driver controlled operation.

Driver releases doors, guard when ready to shut gives the (1-2) bell code, driver shuts doors, then 2 the bell to go.
(it's a different DCO, see below post)

In DCO, the guard has no part in checking the position of the train upon arrival.

 

[tnc1997]

Driver releases doors, guard when ready to shut gives the (1-2) bell code, driver shuts doors, then 2 the bell to go.

I believe that turbos are currently driver opens and guard closes at most stations in the west: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-turbo-doo-cameras.183771.

 

[TurboMan]

Don't those trains have Conductors working them? If so would they not normally do the doors from the rear of the train?

No, guards dispatch 16x and close doors from the door control panels in the saloons. Many moons ago, it was all done from the rear cab, but that was before the door controls panels in the saloons were fitted. But it's the driver who releases the doors.

 

[Towers]

No, guards dispatch 16x from the door control panels in the saloons. Many moons ago, it was all done from the rear cab, but that was before the door controls panels in the saloons were fitted.

Both methods are used. Often on a multiple Turbo formation a Guard may choose to work from the centre cabs, which allows a better position for viewing the length of the train when dispatching as well as making it easier to move between the two units if they so wish.

Guards can release a single, ‘local’ door at the saloon panels fitted at the extreme ends of the train, which cannot be carried out by the driver from the cab; however only the driver can carry out a full door release, which cannot be done from the ‘local’ panel. Doors close and dispatch can be carried out by the guard from either location.

 

[TurboMan]

Both methods are used. Often on a multiple Turbo formation a Guard may choose to work from the centre cabs, which allows a better position for viewing the length of the train when dispatching as well as making it easier to move between the two units if they so wish.

Guards can release a single, ‘local’ door at the saloon panels fitted at the extreme ends of the train, which cannot be carried out by the driver from the cab; however only the driver can carry out a full door release, which cannot be done from the ‘local’ panel. Doors close and dispatch can be carried out by the guard from either location.

Technically yes, but guards are not supposed to dispatch from cabs - they're supposed to be in the train, being visible to the passengers.

 

[Towers]

Technically yes, but guards are not supposed to dispatch from cabs - they're supposed to be in the train, being visible to the passengers.

Of course, yes! But they are permitted to use the cabs for dispatch and routinely do so.

 

[Kite159]

Of course, yes! But they are permitted to use the cabs for dispatch and routinely do so.

Especially when the train is massively overcrowded. Which I suspect for some guards is a lifeline compared to 158s.

 

[Bluejays]

Technically yes, but guards are not supposed to dispatch from cabs - they're supposed to be in the train, being visible to the passengers.

Perfectly possible to do both to be fair. In fact a quick peek out of the droplight is the best way to spot new passengers joining if you're checking tickets

 

[Benjwri]

Technically yes, but guards are not supposed to dispatch from cabs - they're supposed to be in the train, being visible to the passengers.

And yet on almost every turbo I’ve been on in the West they seem to have enjoyed hiding in a rear cab, barely ever see tickets checked these days, especially in the evening.

It’s quite possible the driver decided the platform was too long and tried to stop short of the marker to be kind. They certainly do it a lot at Oldfield Park, where there is only a single stop marker in the Up direction, when the platform is long enough for a 5 car. I’ve always wondered why they don’t get in trouble for it.

 

[michael74]

And yet on almost every turbo I’ve been on in the West they seem to have enjoyed hiding in a rear cab, barely ever see tickets checked these days, especially in the evening.

Quite a sweeping statement, in my corner of the West the majority of Conductors are out checking tickets even on the last trains and plenty routinely dispatch from the saloon (you try pushing the cab door of a Turbo open every few minutes, you will get muscles like He-Man).

 

[Stigy]

And yet on almost every turbo I’ve been on in the West they seem to have enjoyed hiding in a rear cab, barely ever see tickets checked these days, especially in the evening.

It’s quite possible the driver decided the platform was too long and tried to stop short of the marker to be kind. They certainly do it a lot at Oldfield Park, where there is only a single stop marker in the Up direction, when the platform is long enough for a 5 car. I’ve always wondered why they don’t get in trouble for it.

We would never chose to stop a bit short of a stop car marker where there’s platforms like Trowbridge, with two or more markers and probably just enough room for a 6 car train if you’re lucky.

The stop car marker at Oldfield Park on the up side (the only one now) is at the end of the platform after a series of stop short incidents. It’s a bit of a pain with a 2 or 3 car, and some drivers do stop short of it, but it would make for an uncomfortable meeting if there was another stop short there.

An interesting incident happened on my commute this morning at Trowbridge. I was travelling on 1F07 07:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour formed of 5 coaches (166219 leading 165130).

I was travelling in the rear carriage and upon arrival at Trowbridge I thought we were further back up the platform than normal. After exiting I noticed my doors were only just platformed and the rears weren't, yet had opened. A passenger actually exited these doors and jumped down trackside.

I did notice that the front of the train was stopped at the 3-4 car stop board so 2 questions;

1. Did the driver forget the length of their train?
2. Once the train stops, does the guard have anyway of knowing the train is platformed where it should be before opening the doors or is it assumed?

1F07 eventually left 12 late. What are the protocols for incidents like this, is it reported to control?

Train to | Rail Record

Live Train Times for Train to departing on | Rail Record

live.rail-record.co.uk

2. Based on their route knowledge and position on the train, “most” guards will know the train isn’t correctly positioned I’d imagine, but ultimately it’s the driver’s responsibility.

If they do realise this, and are quick thinking enough, a quick 2-2 on the buzzer to the driver should prevent them opening the doors.

 

[paulwestwood]

And yet on almost every turbo I’ve been on in the West they seem to have enjoyed hiding in a rear cab, barely ever see tickets checked these days, especially in the evening.

It’s quite possible the driver decided the platform was too long and tried to stop short of the marker to be kind. They certainly do it a lot at Oldfield Park, where there is only a single stop marker in the Up direction, when the platform is long enough for a 5 car. I’ve always wondered why they don’t get in trouble for it.

Try working a 3 Car Turbo on the Exmouth Line, you end up working from the Front Coach or Rear Coach as no Guards Panel fitted to the Centre Coach so depending on loadings its normally only one coach that gets fully ticket checked, having a TE is a great help.