GWR should consider running short HSTs on the Brighton/Portsmouth to Cardiff service

[Metal_gee_man]

Just hear me out, but the Brighton/Portsmouth to Cardiff service are how many miles apart? How long does it take? Does it seem a lot like an intercity Cross country-esque route that'd suit, long distance intercity trains? And why are commuter trains currently running that route?

I suggest that HST GTIs/Castle Class 43s should be used on these services, having done 3hrs+ on a class 166 from Brighton, I can assure you if it wasn't for price I would have gone to upto London and through to Bristol for comfort and speed purposes

 

[Pokelet]

Just hear me out, but the Brighton/Portsmouth to Cardiff service are how many miles apart? How long does it take? Does it seem a lot like an intercity Cross country-esque route that'd suit, long distance intercity trains? And why are commuter trains currently running that route?

I suggest that HST GTIs/Castle Class 43s should be used on these services, having done 3hrs+ on a class 166 from Brighton, I can assure you if it wasn't for price I would have gone to upto London and through to Bristol for comfort and speed purposes

I had the unfortunate pleasure of a 166 or 165 many times Worcester to Paddington, not a great experience.

On the Brighton's though I believe HST's aren't cleared over 3rd rail areas, I think it's too do with the bogies on the MK3's potentially fouling.

 

[Envoy]

Just hear me out, but the Brighton/Portsmouth to Cardiff service are how many miles apart? How long does it take? Does it seem a lot like an intercity Cross country-esque route that'd suit, long distance intercity trains? And why are commuter trains currently running that route?

I suggest that HST GTIs/Castle Class 43s should be used on these services, having done 3hrs+ on a class 166 from Brighton, I can assure you if it wasn't for price I would have gone to upto London and through to Bristol for comfort and speed purposes

Totally agree. Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Bath, Salisbury, Southampton & Portsmouth/Brighton are all cities with major flows of passengers. It seems to me that they are trying to provide a local stopper & long distance main city service all rolled into one - although some services are more local stop (like Avoncliffe) than the faster services. The DfT have always underestimated the loadings on this route: remember when they just allocated 2 coach sprinters at hourly intervals! Now they thought that they could dump the Thames Valley Turbos (165/6’s) on this route & that people would be happy.

Let us also not forget the trains to/from Weymouth which are also going a fair old distance all the way up to Cheltenham, Worcester & Great Malvern. Someone going from say Worcester to Bristol is really making an Inter City journey.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

I had the unfortunate pleasure of a 166 or 165 many times Worcester to Paddington, not a great experience.

On the Brighton's though I believe HST's aren't cleared over 3rd rail areas, I think it's too do with the bogies on the MK3's potentially fouling.

When was the last time anything was tried out of Brighton or Portsmouth? Because rail tours and freight still use these lines occasional, both are usually diesel so it can't be the MK1-MK3 coaches it can only be the class 43 loco that potentially causes the issue. Equally when "back in the day" weekend engineering works happened in the Paddington area and some services were diverted to Waterloo many of those would run over 3rd rail to manage that so there must be some "specific" locations the fouling happens

 

[Brissle Girl]

There is a very tight curve, (it may be just east of St Denys) that precludes the use of HST Mk 3 stock, even for short swing link bogie stock, which is otherwise, I believe, ok on 3rd rail.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

St Denys makes some sense, it is a bit complicated and a bit curvy round there!

 

[JonathanH]

Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Bath, Salisbury, Southampton & Portsmouth/Brighton are all cities with major flows of passengers.

Exactly, there are significant commuter flows into these places which means capacity is required - at the same time there are plenty of short platforms on the route.

Short HSTs were never going to be the appropriate rolling stock for this route even without the problems east of Southampton.

There aren't enough 158s available to provide the extra capacity, hence Turbos are being used which have the bonus of having shorter dwell times. It has been discussed many times on this forum.

Let us also not forget the trains to/from Weymouth which are also going a fair old distance all the way up to Cheltenham, Worcester & Great Malvern. Someone going from say Worcester to Bristol is really making an Inter City journey.

Oh dear. These are just local services which just happen to run a long distance so that multiple people can have a through journey across Gloucester or Bristol. It is operationally convenient to string them all together. The operating economics of these services do not warrant 'Inter-city' rolling stock.

I think we have to accept that GWR are doing their best to provide capacity across their network with the available resources at their disposal and at an acceptable cost.

 

[irish_rail]

Just hear me out, but the Brighton/Portsmouth to Cardiff service are how many miles apart? How long does it take? Does it seem a lot like an intercity Cross country-esque route that'd suit, long distance intercity trains? And why are commuter trains currently running that route?

I suggest that HST GTIs/Castle Class 43s should be used on these services, having done 3hrs+ on a class 166 from Brighton, I can assure you if it wasn't for price I would have gone to upto London and through to Bristol for comfort and speed purposes

So when you take the HSTs off the Cardiff to Penzance route to put on the Cardiff Brighton route what is the Penzance route going to use instead? Cardiff to Penzance is a darn sight longer than to Portsmouth. Links just as many cities, Cardiff, bristol, Exeter, Plymouth, truro. Many people do long trips such as Exeter to Penzance which is 3 hours or Penzance to Plymouth which is 2 hours. Should they all be herded into a 166? Meanwhile all the hassle of training Westbury and fratton drivers on HSTs whilst training Penzance par Plymouthand Exeter on turbos. Not to mention the HSTs are maintained at Laira and the Turbos at Bristol. It isn't gonna happen mate.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Given the physical restriction, it isn’t going to happen. As part of the recent Direct Award GWR has been asked to consider options for improving the passenger environment of the Cardiff to Portsmouth route but that’s probably for another thread, as it certainly won’t involve Castle Class rolling stock.

 

[PHILIPE]

Given the physical restriction, it isn’t going to happen and as it’s perilously close to being off topic probably best to close it off there. As part of the recent Direct Award GWR has been asked to consider options for improving the passenger environment of the Cardiff to Portsmouth route but that’s probably for another thread, as it certainly won’t involve Castle Class rolling stock.

The suggestion of and the reasons why HSTs can't be used on the Cardiff to Portsmouth route have been done to death on the Forum anyway.