GX North of East Croydon?

[SouthernHRH]

Just a quick question really.

At present, Gatwick Express uses 4 paths an hour running between East Croydon and Victoria via Clapham Junction. Is there an specific reason why the service is not re-routed to go from East Croydon via Crystal Palace, Tulse Hill, Herne Hill, Wandsworth Road then on to Victoria? This then obviously free's up the 4 paths through Clapham each hour?

Just a general question, sure there is a perfectly good reason. Over to you

 

[D1009]

Because the Gatwick Express is meant to be express. The 0135 from Gatwick goes that way for route knoweldge purposes and takes 47 minutes.

 

[SouthernHRH]

Just to clarify, I am aware its Express and thus non-stop. The routing listed above, I did not mean to stop at those stations, just to follow the track to those stations.

Using Google Earth ruler, via Herne Hill works out at around 14.2 miles and via Clapham at 14.3 miles. So practically the same length.

Along the line from Herne Hill via Brixton, timetables only show 4 trains per hour, so surely there is capacity for GX to run that way instead as they do not need to pass through Clapham as they don't stop.

 

[ushawk]

Just to clarify, I am aware its Express and thus non-stop. The routing listed above, I did not mean to stop at those stations, just to follow the track to those stations.

Using Google Earth ruler, via Herne Hill works out at around 14.2 miles and via Clapham at 14.3 miles. So practically the same length.

Along the line from Herne Hill via Brixton, timetables only show 4 trains per hour, so surely there is capacity for GX to run that way instead as they do not need to pass through Clapham as they don't stop.

Just because its the "same length" it doesnt mean it takes the same time. Speed limits via Crystal Palace are a lot slower than the fast lines - so it takes 15 minutes longer.

If you want to divert it that way, you may as well just remove the whole service (theres another debate on that but we'll leave that !!).

 

[OxtedL]

Indeed. The Herne Hill route is still much slower.

 

[David10]

Because the route via Clapham Junction has higher speeds hence the time difference mentioned above. Also would have to cross about 4 lines to get from platform 2 at Battersea Park to plaforms 13/14 at Victoria as well as negotiating junctions at South Norwood and Herne Hill.

 

[Southern]

Along the line from Herne Hill via Brixton, timetables only show 4 trains per hour, so surely there is capacity for GX to run that way instead as they do not need to pass through Clapham as they don't stop.

There are a few other trains routed via Herne Hill, notably 2tph Victoria - Ramsgate/Dover Priory and another 2tph Victoria - Ashford via Maidstone East. Then at Herne Hill, you have 4tph FCC services crossing at the London end and another 4 at the Country end. Tulse Hill has 4tph to/from London Bridge, 2 of which head towards Crystal Palace to join another 4tph to/from Victoria.

 

[cjohnson]

Will FCC Brighton services be diverted through Herne Hill during the London Bridge works?

 

[SouthernHRH]

Question answered. Thank you muchly

 

[neilm]

Yep it is on the Thameslink programme, website. It appears to be 2tph via herne hill and 2tph starting at London bridge.

 

[mr_jrt]

Just because its the "same length" it doesnt mean it takes the same time. Speed limits via Crystal Palace are a lot slower than the fast lines - so it takes 15 minutes longer.

What works would be required to get the line speeds increased so as to generate comparable timings?

(I guess time-speed profile graphs for the two routes would be handy here)

 

[MCR247]

I remember being on a 319 via Herne Hill and it actually felt like the longest journey ever. Not because of the time it jut felt like the train was going so slowly

 

[pendolino]

What works would be required to get the line speeds increased so as to generate comparable timings?

Massive realignment which could only happen by knocking down some of the most valuable properties in the country, so it's never going to happen. There's barely a straight bit of track between Norwood Jct and Tulse Hill (I don't know about beyond there I don't sign it), the highest line speed is 50 between Cystal Palace tunnel and West Norwood, the rest is around 20-35. Stupidly low speeds due to the curvature and signal sightings (compare with 60-70 for most of the journey from E Croydon to Vic via Balham). 442s are currently restricted to 5mph through Crystal Palace too because of the low clearance on the curved platforms.

 

[neilm]

If they resignalled it with etrms would that improve the speeds because of the signal sights?

 

[cle]

The route via Herne Hill is awful. If you have to go to Gatwick after work and are our the TL route, there are about 1.5-2 hours when it goes that way.

Even though it is non-stop from Blackfriars to East Croydon, it is agonisingly slow. I guess it has to avoid catching up with local trains, which even though nippy between stations, stop about 6-8 times between London and Norwood/Croydon. Peak dwells are longer, although PM is quicker than AM.

 

[Bald Rick]

If they resignalled it with etrms would that improve the speeds because of the signal sights?

Nope.

 

[MCR247]

The route via Herne Hill is awful. If you have to go to Gatwick after work and are our the TL route, there are about 1.5-2 hours when it goes that way.

Even though it is non-stop from Blackfriars to East Croydon, it is agonisingly slow. I guess it has to avoid catching up with local trains, which even though nippy between stations, stop about 6-8 times between London and Norwood/Croydon. Peak dwells are longer, although PM is quicker than AM.

Ah I'm glad it wasn't just me that felt it was painfully slow because I was tired