Halifax redevelopment: could there be opportunities to improve or expand the station?

[Sceptre]

It would appear that the plans for Halifax station have changed once again!

View attachment 75375

Taken from the Next Chapter website.
http://www.calderdalenextchapter.co.uk/projects

It doesn't look too much changed from the previous plans; you can see the 1855 station building in the background, although it looks like the mini-bus station plans have been amended.

This makes sense, given the news is that the news since the budget has focused a lot on the 1855 building spilling out onto an urban garden/plaza leading up to the Piece Hall.

 

[Halifaxlad]

It doesn't look too much changed from the previous plans; you can see the 1855 station building in the background, although it looks like the mini-bus station plans have been amended.

This makes sense, given the news is that the news since the budget has focused a lot on the 1855 building spilling out onto an urban garden/plaza leading up to the Piece Hall.

Maybe not, as for the mini bus station plans those went ages ago and weren't even included when the last plans were published. Anyway where is this news about this 'urban garden/plaza' ?

I am aware that Eureka did have some plans drawn up by Sturgeon North Architects a few years ago that showed a plaza in front of the 1855 building but I thought this was scrapped ? Although with the plans keep changing anything is possible. Got to admit it does sound exciting.

 

[Halifaxlad]

There is a new hourly service terminating at HFX from the north, which adds pressure on the layout, and having the reversing siding south of the station adds time to the turnround, so there may be more of a case now.

I was on one last night, for some reason they took it straight back out to Hull from the UP platform.

 

[30907]

I was on one last night, for some reason they took it straight back out to Hull from the UP platform.

Happened to 3 consecutively last night, all arriving several minutes late but leaving on time; it saves 7 minutes looking at RTT - but delays the following Manchester train by 4-5.

 

[BrianW]

If I recall right, several bus stations closed once councils started charging bus companies; result- more stops on the roadside; and more flexibility on where buses 'stopped'. Less coordination and interchange though!
And no shelters; no toilets; no staff ...

 

[Greetlander]

I have an axe to grind here because I desperately want Halifax to get the third platform back as a true through third platform, but my reasons are "because", which I accept does not a business case make.

Could the more informed and qualified people on here please tell me if there is a genuine need for it, particularly in mind of possible future service patterns.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I have an axe to grind here because I desperately want Halifax to get the third platform back as a true through third platform, but my reasons are "because", which I accept does not a business case make.

Could the more informed and qualified people on here please tell me if there is a genuine need for it, particularly in mind of possible future service patterns.

If Northern Powerhouse Rail does indeed pass through Halifax they will be a need for not just the reopening of the third platform but a fourth platform as well!

 

[Glenn1969]

If NPR goes this way I doubt we will get a station because I think the focus will be on making sure Bradford is served

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If NPR goes this way I doubt we will get a station because I think the focus will be on making sure Bradford is served

The topography of Halifax and the surrounding area does not really lend itself to high-speed rail. Lots of steep-sided bendy valleys...

Bradford is similarly tough on that front, being in the bottom of what is functionally (though not geologically) a great big crater. However Bradford is a much bigger market in terms of population (even adjusted to disregard the oft-stated inclusion of Keighley, Ilkley etc. in population figures) than Halifax.

 

[Halifaxlad]

NPHR is mainly bits of new line, besides which you don't really need a new end to end line to deliver a journey time of 30 miniutes between Bradford & Manchester. Transpennnie Route Upgrade aims to achieve a journey time between Leeds & Manchester in no-more than 40 miniutes. This idea that a brand new line will be constructed from end to end to take what will post TRU (10 miniutes) off the overall journey is just preposterous. From my understanding one of the possible routes being considered is a tunnel under Littleborough, which would basically be reinstating and completing the former Rishworth branch. If this was done, then it would only be 35 miles between Bradford & Manchester and a little more to Leeds via Dewsbury. You would only have to average around 60mph to achieve 35 minutes. The long straight tunnel would allow you to go to a 100mph mitigating the area's where you wouldn't be able to achieve 60.

In short it is quite possible that NPHR will go via Halifax!

 

[nimbus21]

The shelters in Halifax are the originals from 1989. Halifax didn't get more of a makeover because, at the time the other stations got done, it was only 10 years old. I don't see what benefit pulling it down now would serve, it's fine for what it is!



It benefits from a bus station in the same way everywhere else does- it's a central, dry place to wait for your bus, a short walk from the shops. Compared to, say, Bradford Interchange (a white elephant which most Bradford buses still don't use!) it's so much more useful.

It is a pain that the railway station is so far out of the town centre, and so far away from the obvious roads buses would use, though.

I disagree about Bradford Interchange being a White Elephant. Most Bradford city centre buses use it and it is only 5 minutes walk to places like the Broadway Shopping Centre, Alhambra Theatre, National Science & Media Museum, St George's Hall etc and only about 8/10 minutes walk to Forster Square station. The main drawback about the Interchange is the lack of adequate drop/pick up areas for both taxis and the public in general.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Most Bradford city centre buses use it and it is only 5 minutes walk to places like the Broadway Shopping Centre, Alhambra Theatre, National Science & Media Museum, St George's Hall etc and only about 8/10 minutes walk to Forster Square

Most city local buses don't go in there- the 640/641, 645, 607 and 608 don't. It's a good place to switch between buses but there are closer stops to places like Broadway for pretty much anywhere in the city. It's a bit better since the shops moved down the hill from the Kirkgate Centre, but still.

I wouldn't get rid of the place, but it's never been quite as useful as the original plans suggested.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Does anybody think Halifax would be better off with an overall roof ?

It did used to have one originally before the GNR arrived!

If or rather when P3 is reopened, they're is the small issue of no canopy between the existing and the footbridge.

P1 & P2 canopy is also shorter than the orignal.

I have previously thought how if an overall roof was constructed then the existing canopy could be used at Todmorden, Sowerby Bridge or even Brighouse!

 

[Grumpy]

I disagree about Bradford Interchange being a White Elephant. .

It was built with a very expensive (modelled on a German football stadium) overall roof the sole function of which was to keep buses dry-the buses of course would get wet when they left. Passengers had their own shelters. The roof has since been removed.
It was designed to have an inordinately expensive bus garage under the bus station, and an office block which did not need to be provided. Bus maintenance/parking has since relocated and the admin staff .
It was too big and part of the site has since been sold off.
When it opened the net additional cost of operation to the Passenger Transport Executive was £1m pa, mainly the effect of rerouting buses to serve the Interchange.
It wasn't built to solve a major transport problem. It was the former Bradford council desperate to blow its funds (and commit the new PTE) on a building, rather than see the funds transferred to the successor authority where they might have been spent elsewhere in West Yorkshire. At the same time it had the worst bus fleet in West Yorkshire and the new Authority had to prioritise new buses for Bradford

 

[Halifaxlad]

All this talk about buses makes me think I should go and start a dedicated forum for Halifax Station, thoughts please ?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

All this talk about buses makes me think I should go and start a dedicated forum for Halifax Station, thoughts please ?

It's a yes from me: I almost started one for West Yorkshire bus stations when this thread was first started, as such discussion had very little to do with the railway station in Halifax.

 

[Halifaxlad]

With all this talk about reinstating the Wortley curve apparently for direct Bradford - Wakefield & Sheffield services, does anybody think it be a good idea for these services to start from Halifax, (preferably from a third platform) since I think Bradford maybe too full ?

 

[30907]

With all this talk about reinstating the Wortley curve apparently for direct Bradford - Wakefield & Sheffield services, does anybody think it be a good idea for these services to start from Halifax, (preferably from a third platform) since I think Bradford maybe too full ?

Marginal, because you've then got to run them in and out of Interchange twice.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Marginal, because you've then got to run them in and out of Interchange twice.

Surely it would be much better than having it layover at Bradford ?

 

[Aictos]

When Metro did a load of bus station rebuilds 20 or so years ago, I thought it was odd that Halifax bus station retained the "multiple islands with shelters" set-up when all the other large stations switched to "drive in, reverse out" bays if they weren't already (Bradford Interchange* and Wakefield for example). As a result the site is far bigger than it needs to be, and with so many waiting areas distant from the Travel Centre it's no surprise that it attracts scallies.

*= Bradford is technically a hybrid set-up, with end-on bays one side and parallel bays on the other.

Peterborough is like that too but slightly different with the west side having end on bays at the south end and parallel bays at the north end then the east side has parallel bays at the south side and end on bays at the north side.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Peterborough is like that too but slightly different with the west side having end on bays at the south end and parallel bays at the north end then the east side has parallel bays at the south side and end on bays at the north side.

Where is Peterborough?

 

[Glenn1969]

On the ECML. but I thought that had through platforms unlike Bradford Interchange

 

[Wharfe106]

With all this talk about reinstating the Wortley curve apparently for direct Bradford - Wakefield & Sheffield services, does anybody think it be a good idea for these services to start from Halifax, (preferably from a third platform) since I think Bradford maybe too full ?

It's off topic and Wortley curve may prove to be impractical, but for my money it would make sense to give the Calder valley a through service to Sheffield etc.

 

[Aictos]

On the ECML. but I thought that had through platforms unlike Bradford Interchange

As the post I quoted referred to the bus station at Halifax and my post quite specifically referred to the bus station layout in Peterborough, I'm confused to how the Peterborough bus station can be confused with Peterborough railway station especially as one hosts buses and the other hosts trains....

 

[30907]

On the ECML. but I thought that had through platforms unlike Bradford Interchange

The post is responding to a discussion about bus stations

Surely it would be much better than having it layover at Bradford ?

To get a train in and out of Bradford in each direction using the same platform needs about 15 minutes minimum. This is almost certainly longer than the minimum permitted turnround time for a train from Sheffield (I don't have the actual figure).
On the other hand, if the schedule would involve a long layover (say 45 minutes or more) then you might need to run to Halifax; you might unfortunately also make the economics of the service unviable - especially if you need to build an extra platform!

 

[Glenn1969]

The Halifax redevelopment plan includes bringing the 3rd platform face back into use though. I still back the Sheffield service but would rather it went via Brighouse, Thornhill and Horbury Junction if they could restore the curve at Horbury

 

[Britannia94]

It's off topic and Wortley curve may prove to be impractical, but for my money it would make sense to give the Calder valley a through service to Sheffield etc.

If they were going to do that, wouldn’t it make more sense to link the Bradford - Huddersfield and Huddersfield - Sheffield services together and create a through link to Sheffield?

I don’t know if it would work, but it’s just an after thought.

 

[Halifaxlad]

The Halifax redevelopment plan includes bringing the 3rd platform face back into use though. I still back the Sheffield service but would rather it went via Brighouse, Thornhill and Horbury Junction if they could restore the curve at Horbury

Maybe the best the way would be to have 2 services, one from Bradford that could start from Halifax and the second maybe from Manchester via Hebden Bridge so the whole Calder Valley could benefit.

 

[Glenn1969]

I would rather have it serve Halifax after leaving Bradford. Think Manchester to Sheffield via the Calder Valley is too slow to be of any use

 

[Grumpy]

The simple answer to all this is to join together the existing Sheffield-Huddersfield service with the Huddersfield-Bradford service.
Through trains connecting Halifax and Sheffield at no extra operating cost, no additional paths required in total, and no millions spent on curves at Wortley and West Horbury.

I there's any money available to be spent on curves perhaps it could be spent on the existing Horbury Junction. Last time I looked Leeds-Sheffield via Barnsley trains were crawling through at something like 20mph