Has a 323 ever made it to London?

[py_megapixel]

The answer is probably no, but has a 323 ever managed to find itself substituted onto a service to Euston, for example, either from the Birmingham allocation or from Manchester in the First North Western days?

Have they been anywhere in the London area, in service or not, for any reason at all?

 

[birchesgreen]

I've never seen it but I think it could happen when a 323 substituted for a 321 on the BHM-EUS route via Northampton?

They do (or have anyway) BHM-LIV so can do longer distance work of course.

 

[CommuterPigeon]

They don't appear to be route cleared south of Bletchley on the WCML. That's not to say they weren't in the past however.

 

[221101 Voyager]

I've seen many 323s at Wolverton heading for the Wolverton Works and seen 90's footage on YouTube at Bletchley where there was a 323 there.

Don't know how close they've been to London on a passenger service though.

 

[sd0733]

I've never seen it but I think it could happen when a 323 substituted for a 321 on the BHM-EUS route via Northampton?

They do (or have anyway) BHM-LIV so can do longer distance work of course.

A 323 can much more easily do Birmingham to Liverpool as Wolverhampton and New Street both sign the route as well as 323s.
Nobody who signs south of Northampton (at the present time, cant say with certainy that they never have) signs 323s which rules it out as a practical substitution to Euston as 2 sets of Crew would be required.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Never saw one there. A pair of Marston Vale 150s was known to subsitute on early Saturday/Sunday mornings, though.

 

[43096]

I've seen many 323s at Wolverton heading for the Wolverton Works and seen 90's footage on YouTube at Bletchley where there was a 323 there.

Don't know how close they've been to London on a passenger service though.

When new, the West Mids 323s had Bletchley as their home depot.

 

[LowLevel]

I think the furthest south the North West units regularly made was Birmingham and the West Mids ones Bletchley.

 

[pdeaves]

In my mind's eye I can see a picture of a First North Western unit arriving at Euston. However, that may be a mis-remember.

 

[warwickshire]

The answer is probably no, but has a 323 ever managed to find itself substituted onto a service to Euston, for example, either from the Birmingham allocation or from Manchester in the First North Western days?

Have they been anywhere in the London area, in service or not, for any reason at all?

Out of interest for a short period back in 2001 and 2002 when it became a 323 from a 309.

On the First North Western overnight Birmingham service the 0110 Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham international. If Birmingham new Street was inaccessible from the Soho end due to engineering works.

On some occasions the First North Western 323 would go as a passenger service up the Trent valley via Lichfield, change ends at Rugby and go to Birmingham international via Coventry.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Weren't they used for the short-lived FNW Manchester Airport-Euston service.
Or was that the 322 ex-Stansted units?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In my mind's eye I can see a picture of a First North Western unit arriving at Euston. However, that may be a mis-remember.

Interesting...did a 323 ever work the Airport-London service? The normal fare was 322s for that, or 158s for Rochdale.

 

[ainsworth74]

In my mind's eye I can see a picture of a First North Western unit arriving at Euston. However, that may be a mis-remember.

I was wondering about that. Normally those (Manchester Airport to Euston) would have been the 322s but I can't help but wonder if a 323 got subbed onto it at least once!

 

[LowLevel]

The North Western Euston services were booked 322 and 158 though I believe a 309 made it to Euston at least once as did a 156. Never heard anything about a 323 though. They are a lot less universal for gauging I think.

 

[CJ]

A Regional Railways North West livery (probably First North Western operated) did a Manchester (Piccadilly) - Birmingham New Street service back in the late 90s / early 00s.

Not sure if any made it's way to London though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A Regional Railways North West livery (probably First North Western operated) did a Manchester (Piccadilly) - Birmingham New Street service back in the late 90s / early 00s.

Not sure if any made it's way to London though.

FNW did a Birmingham service back then to fill in the gaps in the far less frequent XC service. It was usually 309s, but I don't doubt that 323s probably did it occasionally. Indeed wouldn't have ever gone past New St that way though.

 

[warwickshire]

FNW did a Birmingham service back then to fill in the gaps in the far less frequent XC service. It was usually 309s, but I don't doubt that 323s probably did it occasionally. Indeed wouldn't have ever gone past New St that way though.

The 323s did take over for a year on the Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham international for a year after the 309 ended. Before that service ended. As well.
However 8 car 309 Down to a 3 3car 323.
Often full and standing leaving congleton.
Also service before that at congleton was the 0652 Stoke-on-Trent to Manchester Piccadilly a two car 142 booked pacer train. Also rammed upon arrival at macclesfield. Due to 323 being moved from the 0652 Stoke-on-Trent to Manchester Piccadilly to cover for the morning Birmingham international to Manchester Piccadilly service.

 

[Philip]

Were they built at a factory in London, or delivered to a depot there?

 

[warwickshire]

Also 323s on Birmingham international airport to Manchester Piccadilly was morning turn only. But did go to rugby via Trent valley for diversionary.
Was like the London services from Manchester airport staffed by Manchester airport guards at the time.
But at Manchester Piccadilly by link 2 drivers special link for London and Birmingham internationals. Which was mainly a top link for 323 work for the above

 

[Bletchleyite]

Were they built at a factory in London, or delivered to a depot there?

Hunslet TPL, which I think was Leeds?

 

[warwickshire]

Were they built at a factory in London, or delivered to a depot there?

Built Hunset leeds. Then Based at bletchley to begin with the first ones allocated to Central trains later moved to soho tmd. 323201 to 323222 323239 to 323242. And 323223 to 323238 went to first north Western at longsight Manchester.
However for a long time they had issues when brand new.
Also for a while due to it being British rail still from 1993 late on to middle 1995 at longsight Manchester on north west side and on local Manchester 323 route driver training you had 323207 in green centro livery and branding running locally around Manchester

 

[warwickshire]

Hunslet TPL, which I think was Leeds?

Yes it was

 

[Neptune]

Hunslet TPL, which I think was Leeds?

Yes the last trains built at Hunslet in Leeds. 14 units were to be built for Leeds NW triangle electrification but it was cancelled and the factory closed to train building.

 

[D7666]

I have a vague memory of a 323 setting off vice 322 from Manchester on a Euston service but terminated at Rugby thence ECS from whence it came. Memory only, no date, no number iirc it was someone relaying this to me while on SVR a few days after the event.

 

[Spirit555]

Central trains had 323201 - 323222, 323240 - 323243. 323223 - 323239 were first north western. 323240 - 324243 were financed by Royal Bank of Scotland. All had plaques inside which have long since disappeared I believe.

Mark

 

[trentvalley]

323 has definitely worked in passenger service at Euston, seen the photo on here. Was in London Midland days.

 

[LowLevel]

323 has definitely worked in passenger service at Euston, seen the photo on here. Was in London Midland days.

Not as far as I know or recall and a quick search reveals no such photo, just a post from yourself from last year saying such a thing might possibly have happened.

I know both a 323 and a 170 have made it in service to Liverpool (the latter on a charter I think) in the last few years but I don't ever recall seeing a 323 at Euston.

They're not route cleared and they have specific requirements for doing so regarding electrical interference with signalling equipment and the actual loading gauge of the units themselves which is I believe somewhat unusual - they're not just "go anywhere" trains.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The North Western Euston services were booked 322 and 158 though I believe a 309 made it to Euston at least once as did a 156. Never heard anything about a 323 though. They are a lot less universal for gauging I think.

And yet, as Roger Ford kept pointing out at the time, the 323 was the only EMU to get full electrical clearance for the whole UK AC network.

 

[LowLevel]

And yet, as Roger Ford kept pointing out at the time, the 323 was the only EMU to get full electrical clearance for the whole UK AC network.

Happy to stand corrected on that point! I do seem to recall their original introduction was extraordinary protracted though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

323 has definitely worked in passenger service at Euston, seen the photo on here. Was in London Midland days.

Do you have a link please?