Havant - London Terminals routeing

[Deety]

Hi folks,

I currently have a Brighton-London annual season (any permitted). On another thread someone mentioned a Havant single ticket to London being valid through Brighton, so I thought I'd have a look.

From my newbie inspection of the routeing guide it looks like the following mapped routes are valid from HAV:

CW+LB via Brighton (and Lewes)
CW+LF via the Arun valley
PD via Guildford (and Woking if needed... and Staines too if I want to go that way)

Is my interpretation correct? If so I'd probably look to change to a Havant season if that will let me do my normal commute from Brighton. It's only £200 more a year for a lot of extra validity which would be nice for leisure travel.

Can anyone foresee any problems?

Thanks!

 

[marshmallow]

Yes that is absolutely fine and a really good idea as it allows so many routes! I use a Chichester-London ticket via Brighton quite a lot so similar situation and sometimes when breaking my journey at stations between Brighton and Three Bridges, I have been advised by station staff that this is not a valid route...so just bear in mind that often staff think that a ticket isn't valid on a specific route when it is, and it can be hard to convince them so that is the only disadvantage to this...at the end of the day, it is valid though! It's worth noting that you can use the ticket to Littlehampton [although when I did this before, station staff did not realise that this is allowed], however frustratingly I believe that there is no through ticket that allows travel to Bognor Regis; as such if you want to go there you would need an additional ticket from Barnham.

 

[marshmallow]

In fact as another point, if you are purchasing a Travelcard season ticket then it is worth noting that:
A Havant to London Zones 1-6 Annual Travelcard (Any route permitted) costs £5616
A Bognor Regis to London Zones 1-6 Annual Travelcard (Also valid for travel to or from Chichester) costs £5424
So the latter is cheaper. Now, a ticket from Bognor Regis to London is not valid via Havant, however a ticket from Chichester to London IS, so hopefully someone else will confirm but my interpretation is that since the latter option is also valid from Chichester, it is valid via Havant.

However, if you are just buying a ticket to London Terminals, then the annual prices are:
Havant to London Terminals (Any Permitted): £4764
Bognor Regis to London Terminals: £4588 BUT NOT VALID FROM CHICHESTER
Bognor Regis to London Terminals (Also valid for travel to or from Chichester): £4876

[for some reason, for a Travelcard from Bognor Regis, there is no extra charge for it to be also valid from Chichester, however there is for the London Terminals season ticket!]

So I don't know whether or not you are buying a Travelcard, but if you are then the Bognor Regis option looks cheaper and better than the Havant one!

And another thing that I'm sure you have already noted, is a Travelcard from Havant "Valid only for travel via (changing trains or passing through) Three Bridges" costs more than an Any Permitted one; this is a typical case of different train companies being inconsistent with their prices, and for this reason it is often cheaper to buy tickets to/from different stations from your actual origin and destination which are still valid for your journey!

 

[yorkie]

...A Bognor Regis to London Zones 1-6 Annual Travelcard (Also valid for travel to or from Chichester) costs £5424
So the latter is cheaper. Now, a ticket from Bognor Regis to London is not valid via Havant, however a ticket from Chichester to London IS, so hopefully someone else will confirm but my interpretation is that since the latter option is also valid from Chichester, it is valid via Havant...

Is the extended availability of "AAA" Seasons defined anywhere?

@OwlMan?

 

[yorkie]

From my newbie inspection of the routeing guide it looks like the following mapped routes are valid from HAV:

CW+LB via Brighton (and Lewes)

Yes

CW+LF via the Arun valley

Yes (and direct trains, such as via Horsham, do not require reference to mapped routes)

PD via Guildford (and Woking if needed... and Staines too if I want to go that way)

Yes (and the shortest route & routes up to 3 miles longer, such as via Woking, do not require reference to mapped routes)

Is my interpretation correct? If so I'd probably look to change to a Havant season if that will let me do my normal commute from Brighton. It's only £200 more a year for a lot of extra validity which would be nice for leisure travel.

Can anyone foresee any problems?

Thanks!

I foresee no problems.

It's all valid.

 

[causton]

Had a similar thing, had a 16-25 day return to Shanklin taking the ferry from Portsmouth Harbour and on the way back went from Portsmouth to Brighton, got out at Brighton no problem, staff said it was a 'long way round' but valid, then up from there to Gatwick then on the Gatwick Express and no problems even being checked on the Gatwick Express (back when they had staff on the train checking!) and at the GatEx ticket barriers at Victoria, they said it was all fine!

 

[marshmallow]

then on the Gatwick Express and no problems even being checked on the Gatwick Express (back when they had staff on the train checking!)

Yes it's interesting that with longer distance tickets, they tend to allow the Gatwick Express even though it costs extra on shorter journeys.

 

[yorkie]

Yes it's interesting that with longer distance tickets, they tend to allow the Gatwick Express even though it costs extra on shorter journeys.

How could they not include this route?

Yes Victoria to Gatwick fares are charged at a ludicrous premium to fleece unsuspecting tourists who will pay almost any amount the company asks for, but all savvy passengers in this area know that longer distance fares are cheaper (e.g. if you asked for an "Any Permitted" single today, GTR charges £19.90 if you just asked for Victoria to Gatwick, while they'd only charge £13.70 if you asked for the much longer journey from Elstree & Borehamwood to Brighton).

Similar things happen - just not to anywhere near this extent - with Manchester Airport, Stansted Airport, etc.

 

[alistairlees]

Yes Victoria to Gatwick fares are charged at a ludicrous premium to fleece unsuspecting tourists who will pay almost any amount the company asks for, but all savvy passengers in this area know that longer distance fares are cheaper (e.g. if you asked for an "Any Permitted" single today, GTR charges £19.90 if you just asked for Victoria to Gatwick, while they'd only charge £13.70 if you asked for the much longer journey from Elstree & Borehamwood to Brighton).

I hadn't realised the price differentials were so great. I just did a bit more digging and a Crawley to Kentish Town Super Off-Peak Single (which is valid on any train on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays, is route Any Permitted, and permits a break of journey) is £12.70, with the day return being £12.80.

The Gatwick Express from Gatwick Airport to London Victoria equivalents are £19.90 (for the SOS) and £27.20 for the CDR. 56.7% and 112.5% more expensive respectively!

 

[Deety]

Thanks all for confirming! I will definitely be doing this.

@marshmallow thank you for the extra options! I'm not going for a travelcard as I can normally walk to wherever I need to get to or use Oyster on occasion. Will check out the Bognor ticket though and see if that fits my common journies. The cheaper fare on any permitted as opposed to via TBD is certainly odd but I guess that's where we are with ticketing today...

@yorkie Cheers! I may have to drag myself to a fares workshop at some point

I'll probably take along a print of the relevant parts of the guide just in case. My existing ticket doesn't work the barriers at Lewes anyway and I'm not sure how willing the station staff would be to accept a ticket that is from so far away. Although I have never had a problem with Southern staff before!

Cheers!

 

[Brucey]

I haven't checked the routeing guide for a while, but when I was commuting to London, Bedhampton to Zones 1-6 was the same price as Havant, but being in Portsmouth Group, offered even more validity.

At the time, it was valid via. Guildford, Brighton, Horsham, Eastleigh, Ash, Reading, Southampton Central and possibly a few more routes I cannot remember. FGW and SWT were fully aware what I was doing (since I had to claim for delays on a few journeys), so I feel they may have "fixed" the routeing guide by now.

In theory, you could have even used it to/from Portsmouth Harbour.

 

[yorkie]

I just did a quick routeing check for Bedhampton to London Bridge via Lewes, and got this result:

Origin Routeing Point – PORTSMOUTH GROUP
Destination Routeing Point – LONDON GROUP
Traceable on maps CW+LB

I do not believe there would be any justification for withdrawing this long-standing permitted route. It was reasonable under BR and should therefore have protected status.

However I can't bring up any permitted routes via Southampton or via Reading.

 

[JB_B]

...However I can't bring up any permitted routes via Southampton or via Reading.

Yellow pages give:-

Portsmouth Group-London Group CW+LB CW+LF PD SW

So via Southampton/SWML should be OK on Bedhampton-London, shouldn't it? ( Reading - no, I agree.)

 

[yorkie]

via Eastleigh? yes
via Southampton? no.

 

[JB_B]

via Eastleigh? yes
via Southampton? no.

Oops, yes - you're quite right. Oddly enough, I'm off to Specsavers this morning...

 

[yorkie]

No worries.

It is a bit odd that Portsmouth - London via Baskingstoke doesn't also permit travel via Reading.

This is despite the fact that Basingstoke to London does permit travel via Reading.

I wonder if that is a mistake?

If it is, the easiest way to bring it to the attention of RDG (that I know of) is simply to post it here, so hopefully it will be fixed soon.

 

[marshmallow]

It is a bit odd that Portsmouth - London via Baskingstoke doesn't also permit travel via Reading.

This is despite the fact that Basingstoke to London does permit travel via Reading.

I wonder if that is a mistake?

I have noticed a similar thing on other routes

 

[swt_passenger]

No worries.

It is a bit odd that Portsmouth - London via Baskingstoke doesn't also permit travel via Reading.

This is despite the fact that Basingstoke to London does permit travel via Reading.

I wonder if that is a mistake?

If it is, the easiest way to bring it to the attention of RDG (that I know of) is simply to post it here, so hopefully it will be fixed soon.

IIRC this was fallout from the changes after a saga a couple of years ago about validity from Basingstoke to Fareham via Salisbury and Southampton. Personally I thought that was a bit ridiculous, so I wasn't surprised it was looked at. But quite a few maps were revised and I reckoned at the time that there were a few too many unexpected effects.

 

[Brucey]

However I can't bring up any permitted routes via Southampton or via Reading.

It appears that would only be valid (as in my case) with a Zones 1-6 season, instead of a London Terminals season.

The way I used to use this was doing Bedhampton to Hayes & Harlington (Zones 1-6 doesn't specify any specific destination, so I am of the understanding you can choose any destination within the zones). The yellow pages permit combinations: LONDON, XR+RG and XS+RG.

RG = London to Reading
XR = Portsmouth to Reading, via Southampton and Basingstoke
XS = Portsmouth to Reading, via Guildford

That's how I ended up with so many weird and wonderful combinations, since the ticket was also valid for any sub-set of these journeys. I carried a PDF of the routeing guide when doing this but only needed to use it once (at the Southampton Central gateline).

 

[Deety]

I just did a quick routeing check for Bedhampton to London Bridge via Lewes, and got this result:

Origin Routeing Point – PORTSMOUTH GROUP
Destination Routeing Point – LONDON GROUP
Traceable on maps CW+LB

I do not believe there would be any justification for withdrawing this long-standing permitted route. It was reasonable under BR and should therefore have protected status.

However I can't bring up any permitted routes via Southampton or via Reading.

Thank you yorkie! This would suit me down to the ground!