Have changes been made to self-service machines recently?

[MP33]

I have just collected tickets that I paid for online.

There were changes from the last time, around four months ago.

I did not have to tap the debit card that I used.
I received the out and return tickets, but no ticket which is an acknowledgement. I have, even though there are no reservations possible. In the past, received, another ticket for a non-existent seat reservation.

Have changes been made to the machines recently?

 

[jfollows]

Which machines, where?

 

[MP33]

Greater Anglia, in the waiting area of the booking office. The journey also included London Underground and South West Trains.

 

[Haywain]

Have changes been made to the machines recently?

Yes. A change is being rolled out so that the card is only required if the retailer has set the booking to 'same card' collection.

 

[cav1975]

Yes. A change is being rolled out so that the card is only required if the retailer has set the booking to 'same card' collection.

The question then had to be - why would any retailer set the need for a same card collection. To my mind the random collection of letters and numbers is pretty secure in itself.

 

[Adam Williams]

The question then had to be - why would any retailer set the need for a same card collection. To my mind the random collection of letters and numbers is pretty secure in itself.

It predates things like 3D Secure being widely available, is my understanding - in a time where requiring the physical card was thought to be an effective barrier against card fraud.

 

[Haywain]

The question then had to be - why would any retailer set the need for a same card collection. To my mind the random collection of letters and numbers is pretty secure in itself.

It's a historic means of protecting against (some) credit card fraud that some retailers are deeply reluctant to let go of. I've had the arguments and still don't understand why.

 

[Silver Cobra]

One change I noticed with Thameslink/Great Northern's machines when collecting ToD tickets yesterday is that the machines now ask for the booking reference first, then for the card to either be tapped on the contactless pad or inserted into the chip & pin pad. When I used the machines last back in the summer they still asked for the card to be inserted first (and contactless wasn't an option for ToD).

 

[Haywain]

When I used the machines last back in the summer they still asked for the card to be inserted first (and contactless wasn't an option for ToD).

That was still the situation in December.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One change I noticed with Thameslink/Great Northern's machines when collecting ToD tickets yesterday is that the machines now ask for the booking reference first, then for the card to either be tapped on the contactless pad or inserted into the chip & pin pad. When I used the machines last back in the summer they still asked for the card to be inserted first (and contactless wasn't an option for ToD).

Yes. When you enter the reference, it is checked to see if it's a specific-card collection and only then is the card requested. If it's any-card then that isn't requested.

I guess whatever retailer you use is still doing specific-card.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Yes. When you enter the reference, it is checked to see if it's a specific-card collection and only then is the card requested. If it's any-card then that isn't requested.

I guess whatever retailer you use is still doing specific-card.

I used LNER to purchase a Stevenage to London Terminals Rail Sale Off-Peak Day Return for next month. Most of the time I use e-tickets with LNER, but for this it had to be ToD (I assume for the cross validity at Old Street/Moorgate via London Underground).

 

[Haywain]

I used LNER to purchase a Stevenage to London Terminals Rail Sale Off-Peak Day Return for next month.

The relevant decision makers in LNER are (or were, two years ago) stubbornly wedded to the idea that same card collection is a necessity. Unfortunately, LNER also retail a small number of tickets by telephone...

 

[cav1975]

I generally buy from the forum ticket site and no card is requested. Occasionally I buy elsewhere if the forum can't offer an equivalent price and then I find that I'm asked for the code followed by the card.

 

[Adam Williams]

I generally buy from the forum ticket site and no card is requested. Occasionally I buy elsewhere if the forum can't offer an equivalent price and then I find that I'm asked for the code followed by the card.

All the TrainSplit brands have been set to any-card-collect for a while, after Transport Investigations Limited decided to try and prosecute a customer on behalf of XC who had been caught out by the same-card collection requirement but was still given authority to travel. There were no further such cases once that change had been made.

Unfortunately, LNER also retail a small number of tickets by telephone...

You'd think they could deal with the telesales bookings separately, and only set it for those if it was deemed important!

 

[Haywain]

You'd think they could deal with the telesales bookings separately, and only set it for those if it was deemed important!

You'd think that the relevant decision makers would be able to understand and accept the difference when it is (was) explained to them.

 

[FuzzyDuck]

Picked up a ticked via one of the SWR TVMs at Basingstoke this week, surprised I wasn't asked to insert the card.

 

[Class800]

It's a historic means of protecting against (some) credit card fraud that some retailers are deeply reluctant to let go of. I've had the arguments and still don't understand why.

Do we know which retailers have this requirement? So that these retailers can be avoided where the requirement cannot be met, e.g. getting tickets for someone else or for a business trip?

 

[Chriso]

Yes I had this at Euston yesterday on the Avanti machines. Collected ticket with no card required

 

[Pieman007]

I noticed this a few weeks back at Havant (a South Western station) - but before that I was able to use contactless with my phone.......

This was for tickets purchased via Southern website.......

 

[Haywain]

Do we know which retailers have this requirement? So that these retailers can be avoided where the requirement cannot be met, e.g. getting tickets for someone else or for a business trip?

LNER has been named above but their may well be others. However, it seems many of those using LNER to purchase tickets do so because of cashback offers, so tapping a card on a machine when collecting tickets might be seen as a minor inconvenience. It certainly wouldn't be enough to cause me to avoid a retailer.

 

[BigB]

Collecting Great Anglia tickets from a Scotrail TVM was card-free as well.

 

[MrJeeves]

Looks like some GTR machines are still requiring card first while others aren't. I imagine all will be updated soon(TM).

1 of the 3 at Sutton (the larger machines that accept cash) still wanted card first.

 

[Class800]

I meant which are same card, as there are many situations where it would not be possible to have the same card

 

[Haywain]

Looks like some GTR machines are still requiring card first while others aren't.

I checked the one available and working machine at my local station last night and it has now changed to the new process.

 

[Howardh]

I meant which are same card, as there are many situations where it would not be possible to have the same card

Can this be clarified, I'm a bit confused - if you buy a ticket as a gift to someone, they would have had to have your card to access the ticket from a machine, whereas now they just need the code on some, but not all, TVM's?

If that's correct will the system be rolled out nationwide at some point?

Second question, if I buy a ticket for February with my card right now, my card's validity expires on 31 Jan* so (a) will it accept my purchase and (b) if so, will it accept the current card or a new one (or both/neither) in the traditional TVM's?

*Waiting for the new one to arrive

 

[CyrusWuff]

Can this be clarified, I'm a bit confused - if you buy a ticket as a gift to someone, they would have had to have your card to access the ticket from a machine, whereas now they just need the code on some, but not all, TVM's?

If that's correct will the system be rolled out nationwide at some point?

Where a ticket is set to allow Any Card collection (e.g. If it was purchased through most Third Party Retailers, a trusted Trainline account, a Travel Management Company or paid for by PayPal or eVoucher) there will be no requirement to present any card in the future.

Where a ticket is set to require the Same Card to be presented to collect the ticket (primarily Train Company sites or a brand new Trainline account) the only change will be that you'll be asked to present the card after entering the collection reference.

Second question, if I buy a ticket for February with my card right now, my card's validity expires on 31 Jan* so (a) will it accept my purchase and (b) if so, will it accept the current card or a new one (or both/neither) in the traditional TVM's?

For a same card collection, the Primary Account Number (more commonly called the card or "long" number) recorded on the card that's presented is checked to make sure it matches the one used for payment. Expiry date doesn't come into it, so you can collect a ticket with the expired card.

If the PAN hasn't changed on the new card, you should be able to use it instead of the old one.

 

[Howardh]

Where a ticket is set to allow Any Card collection (e.g. If it was purchased through most Third Party Retailers, a trusted Trainline account, a Travel Management Company or paid for by PayPal or eVoucher) there will be no requirement to present any card in the future.

Where a ticket is set to require the Same Card to be presented to collect the ticket (primarily Train Company sites or a brand new Trainline account) the only change will be that you'll be asked to present the card after entering the collection reference.


For a same card collection, the Primary Account Number (more commonly called the card or "long" number) recorded on the card that's presented is checked to make sure it matches the one used for payment. Expiry date doesn't come into it, so you can collect a ticket with the expired card.

If the PAN hasn't changed on the new card, you should be able to use it instead of the old one.

Thanks for that explanation!