Have doors ever been opened on the wrong side...

[CarterUSM]

Interesting, with the introduction of Class 170s to Central Trains the exact same problem, and blame of guards, was occurring. After enormous pressure, and with evidence from the OTMR that a lot of wrong side releases showed both sides released at the same time, detailed investigations were undertaken.

It was found that from time to time voltage in the door release circuit would spuriously flick to the wrong side door control panel as well.

So action was taken to fit door key switches on both sides of every cab, and also a capacitor circuit which means the door release buttons must be depressed for two seconds to gain release was added. This did nothing to stop the spurious voltage passover, but as the passover was a flicker, rather than two seconds solid, it solved the problem.

Once again, no member of traincrew threatened with disciplinary action received an apology.

We have had this problem with 15x units, it was found if door key switches were left on during coupling or un-coupling then the doors may energize on one or both sides of the unit. Don't know about the 170's but in any case, during coupling etc all door key switches should be in the OFF position.

 

[notadriver]

Norwood Junction has a fun arrangement for up trains as well.

Whats the arrangement and which platform ?

 

[pendolino]

Whats the arrangement and which platform ?

I'm not quite sure what OxtedL is referring to, but at Norwood Jct, up trains stop on either platform 1 or 3. Plat 1 is generally up slow, Plat 3 is generally up fast (but trains can be routed either way from either platform, and also onto the up Crystal Palace spur). Both are a left hand door release, self dispatch on P3, tip and RA on P3

There is a platform 2 which is on the immediate right hand side of a train in P1, but it's never used. Doors are always opened to the left onto P1. (edit to make it clearer: P2 is the other side of the island platform from P3)

 

[Pumbaa]

One particular incident springs to mind, SDO rather than wrong side; the US at Bletchley is still AFAIK only long enough for 8-cars. One strike day last year saw a Manager open the full 12 while on platform - RMT went nuts about it.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Slightly off topic but why is it not possible to open doors on both sides where the platform allows? The two that spring to mind are Ascot and Greenford, the latter particularly annoying when there is a w/bound Central Line train waiting!

I think that certainly for Ascot the reason is probably due to the third rail being on one side of the platform. It's the same at Guildford on platform 6. Doors are opened on the non third rail side incase someone slips between the train and platform and touches the third rail.

 

[WestCoast]

I know of someone who is partially sighted who fell onto the track after the doors opened on the wrong side back in the British Rail days. I think it happened in Edinburgh.

They were injured but not too badly, they received considerable compensation from BR.

 

[brillopad]

Wrong side egress at Bere Ferrers

 

[mumrar]

One particular incident springs to mind, SDO rather than wrong side; the US at Bletchley is still AFAIK only long enough for 8-cars. One strike day last year saw a Manager open the full 12 while on platform - RMT went nuts about it.

As well RMT should do. It's exactly this kind of substitution and mistake that could cost lives or cause serious injury by placing a manager with a map in charge of a train. Heaven forbid the train needed emergency rescue at night and the driver has been incapacitated.

 

[TGV]

On TGV, the driver selects the side for door release. Guard closes them. I don't know of any examples of it happening, but like someone else said - I'm sure it has.

 

[thelem]

I'm sure I've seen a few signs here and there on platforms to tell the train crew which side to open the doors on but can't for the life of me remember where now.

I think there is one of these signs at Preston Park, just north of Brighton. It's the only station until Hayward's Heath to have more than two platforms, so drivers will be used to opening doors on the left side. The same problem should happen at Hove, but I don't think there are any signs there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the only case where both sides are opened are on the DLR at Tower Gateway, but I can't remember if here the one side opens, then closes, before the other side opens for boarding passengers, despite the fact I've been there and been on it!

Having passengers alight one side and board the other should counter any dwell time concerns at busy stations - the driver/guard can check and close the exit doors while passengers would be entering them if only one set of doors were open. Then they can switch to the entry doors.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

going a little off track, but using cameras/monitors (albeit a rather large bank) it should be possible to see both sides of the train at once- though the number of moniotrs required for both sides of a 12 car train would be bewildering.

Going slightly off-topic, but I've never really understood the 'check clear before door close' argument. Thinking about 377s:
* The doors take a while to close. Plenty of time for a passenger to run from out of sight to get stuck in the door.
* The doors automatically close on a timer anyway (at a terminus), so no one is checking they are clear when that happens
* Automatic doors are clever enough to know when something is blocking them and not push too hard.
* At a busy station there may be a constant stream of passengers arriving on the platform, so no good time to close the doors.

Sure, have a check once the doors have closed and before moving, but that doesn't need to be both sides at once.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's exactly this kind of substitution and mistake that could cost lives or cause serious injury by placing a manager with a map in charge of a train. Heaven forbid the train needed emergency rescue at night and the driver has been incapacitated.

So what is the chance and impact of this happening and someone being injured, vs. the train not running meaning hospital staff can't get to work so a hospital is left short staffed?

 

[notadriver]

On TGV, the driver selects the side for door release. Guard closes them. I don't know of any examples of it happening, but like someone else said - I'm sure it has.

Do you work/service TGVs or Eurostars mate?

 

[The_Stig]

Slightly off topic but why is it not possible to open doors on both sides where the platform allows? The two that spring to mind are Ascot and Greenford, the latter particularly annoying when there is a w/bound Central Line train waiting!

It is possible to release both sides of doors on a unit. If they have DOO CCTV on them however the drivers monitors go blank and s/he cannot see what is happening without looking out the window and as has been stated before s/he can't see both sides at the same time.

 

[Orange Box]

As well RMT should do. It's exactly this kind of substitution and mistake that could cost lives or cause serious injury by placing a manager with a map in charge of a train. Heaven forbid the train needed emergency rescue at night and the driver has been incapacitated.

Do they go nuts when one of their members does the same, which is hardly an unheard of occurance?

 

[button_boxer]

The bay platform 7 at Sheffield changed sides when they started running the semi-fast London trains a year or two back (because the left hand side platform face is only long enough for 4 cars whereas the right face can take 5). But I arrived there on a late night TPE from Manchester once and they still opened the left hand doors, presumably through force of habit.

 

[mumrar]

Do they go nuts when one of their members does the same, which is hardly an unheard of occurance?

When a guard does it, it will be down to possible distraction, tiredness or complacency with their familiarity with the diagram. To leave the chance of it happening widely open to luck because you have somebody not familiar or confident enough in doing the job is just reckless. To make matters worse the company also do things such as put managers on diagrams far more intensive than the guards agreements permit. When guards at Central did a no show Sunday one managers diagram contained 13 hours of work, doing 13 New St-Blake St trips with no proper breaks!

So what is the chance and impact of this happening and someone being injured, vs. the train not running meaning hospital staff can't get to work so a hospital is left short staffed?

That has to be one of the most tenuous and poorest point of argument I've heard.

 

[FGWman]

Slightly off topic but why is it not possible to open doors on both sides where the platform allows? The two that spring to mind are Ascot and Greenford, the latter particularly annoying when there is a w/bound Central Line train waiting!

They do open both sides at Ascot. If you go to Ascot for the races in couple of weeks they will open both sides then. Safer for the passengers as the footbridge is quite narrow and there are loads of people travelling.

Had the doors open on the wrong side at Platform 7 at Reading once. That was not a safety issue though !

 

[NSE]

I know once my dad was on the tube (deep level) and full speed in the tunnel a set of doors opened and stayed open for about five seconds before closing.

 

[BestWestern]

A more common mistake than wrong-side opening would be incidents involving short platforms with either SDO or 'front door only' operation. It isn't unknown for all the doors to be released down the full length of the train when only a certain portion of it is platformed. As with Drivers having SPAD incidents, most of these problems occur as a result of over-familiarity and the dangers of 'auto pilot' thinking, as well as good old fashioned 'blonde moments'!

 

[Goldfish62]

They do open both sides at Ascot. If you go to Ascot for the races in couple of weeks they will open both sides then. Safer for the passengers as the footbridge is quite narrow and there are loads of people travelling.

Until a few years ago this was standard practice at Ascot. The guard would open one side then the other. However, when closing the doors both sides would close at once, including the side which he/she wasn't observing, so maybe this is why they only open on the ticket office now, except during Royal Ascot when there are more dispatch staff present.

 

[b2311e]

I've been on a Class 507/508 before and the guard has opened the wrong side, dangerous in case anybody fell onto the live 3rd rail within touching distance, especially since a lot of people would have been queueing at the doors ready to get off as it was the terminus.

 

[EM2]

A more common mistake than wrong-side opening would be incidents involving short platforms with either SDO or 'front door only' operation. It isn't unknown for all the doors to be released down the full length of the train when only a certain portion of it is platformed. As with Drivers having SPAD incidents, most of these problems occur as a result of over-familiarity and the dangers of 'auto pilot' thinking, as well as good old fashioned 'blonde moments'!

Saw that at Stratford not long a go. A driver pulled up to the 8-car stop and opened the doors. Except it was a 12-car service.
Train taken out of service, couldn't see if it was the same driver who took it out empty, but I doubt it.

 

[O L Leigh]

Saw that at Stratford not long a go. A driver pulled up to the 8-car stop and opened the doors. Except it was a 12-car service.
Train taken out of service, couldn't see if it was the same driver who took it out empty, but I doubt it.

Unusual.

You'd normally only get a train taken out of service if there was some suggestion of a "wrongside" door failure (e.g. a technical fault on the train with the doors that negatively impacts on safety) in case something bad happens later on. A "stop short" does not not fit into this category so there is no requirement to remove the train from service. Normally the train would continue in service with the same driver.

O L Leigh

 

[BestWestern]

Unusual.

You'd normally only get a train taken out of service if there was some suggestion of a "wrongside" door failure (e.g. a technical fault on the train with the doors that negatively impacts on safety) in case something bad happens later on. A "stop short" does not not fit into this category so there is no requirement to remove the train from service. Normally the train would continue in service with the same driver.

O L Leigh

I was thinking the same regarding the unit being taken out of service, though surely you would expect the Driver to be taken off and Mediscreened etc?; a Guard would be after a door incident of that type.

 

[O L Leigh]

Perhaps, although in practice it does seem to rely on adequate spares cover. However, the driver should certainly expect to be met on arrival at the destination.

O L Leigh

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I am not going to give the date or time here, or even the specific terminus ( all I will say is that it was in London ), but within the last month or so I have seen this with my own eyes! So it does still happen.

The 8 car ecs for a middle of the peak hour emu service was brought in to the crowded platform from the depot and after a couple of minutes all the carriage side lights came on, but none of the door buttons were illuminated or operating.

A number of passengers peered through the doors and the reason became clear instantly - the doors had been cut in on the wrong side!

This was quickly remedied once passengers started attracting the attention of the crew but rather alarmingly the right side doors were cut in ( and passengers started boarding the train ) about 20 - 30 seconds before the wrong side doors were isolated again, as evidenced by the door buttons remaining illuminated for that length of time!