Have your tickets been checked on your journey?

Jamesrob637

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Well I've tweeted Northern who will investigate as they should have socially distanced regardless. Of course; if a passenger/group of pax kick off, yes social distancing is no use then, but if things are calm (my train was virtually empty) then 1-2 metres should apply.
 
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221129

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Well I've tweeted Northern who will investigate as they should have socially distanced regardless. Of course; if a passenger/group of pax kick off, yes social distancing is no use then, but if things are calm (my train was virtually empty) then 1-2 metres should apply.
What do you honestly expect Northern to do? It won't even be fed back to management I expect.
 

bramling

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Very short journey today - Knutsford to Mobberley as part of my exercise

Three RPIs on the front unit of a 4-car service - friendly but not socially distanced.

Should such folk currently be working or are they best furloughed out of pax' way?

The most sensible solution is to have them providing an extra presence at gatelines, IMO.
 

Kite159

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The most sensible solution is to have them providing an extra presence at gatelines, IMO.

Only for those routes where the majority of the larger stations have gatelines.

Most pay when challenged passengers will aim for the front unit of a 4 coach working, especially if a gangway less 150/1 is involved
 

Chriso

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7 x Northern rpi on the exit at Doncaster today and a full check by the guard on the 17:42 Doncaster to Thorne South. Nothing on LNER from Kings X
 

Chriso

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Railway Gazette article out today advising RMT have written to government asking to suspend all on train ticket checks during lockdown

Full RMT press release

RMT demands suspension of on-train ticketing duties as survey reveals the operators putting staff at severe COVID risk.

RAIL UNION RMT is today demanding that the Government immediately suspends on-train revenue protection and ticket inspection across all Train Operating Companies, after a survey of RMT on-board staff indicates that 7 out of 17 Train Operating Companies (TOCs) operating through national contracts are putting their staff at increased risk by still requiring them to undertake these non-essential duties in confined spaces such as on board trains, despite the current lockdown, rather than allowing staff to focus on passenger assurance, accessibility and safety.

The survey findings indicate that while 10 Train Operating Companies operating under national contracts, including those managed by the Welsh and Scottish Governments, have suspended on-train revenue protection and ticket inspection during the current lockdown, seven, which are managed by the DfT, are still putting staff at increased risk of coming into contact with Covid-19 by requiring them to undertake on-train revenue protection or ticket inspection duties, even though social distancing cannot be maintained. This is in contrast to the first UK lockdown in 2020, when all on-train revenue protection and ticket inspection was suspended as a safety measure.

The seven Train Operating Companies that the survey indicates are currently requiring staff to undertake on-train revenue protection or ticket inspection duties are: CrossCountry; LNER; Northern; GWR; SWR; Avanti West Coast; C2C.

Of those workers who are still being required to do on-train revenue protection or ticket inspection, nearly 70% believe these duties should be suspended. And shockingly, fewer than 2 in 10 are satisfied with the arrangements their employer has put in place to protect them from Covid-19 risks at work.

Nearly 8 in 10 respondents said they would be prepared to invoke their employer’s ‘worksafe’ procedure if they had Covid-19 safety concerns whilst undertaking on-train revenue protection or ticket inspection duties.

In light of RMT’s serious concerns, General Secretary Mick Cash has written to the Secretary of State, Grant Shapps, to demand the immediate suspension of on-train revenue protection and ticket inspection duties for the duration of the current lockdown whilst also allowing staff to focus on safety, assurance and accessibility.

General Secretary Mick Cash said:

“These survey findings reveal an inconsistent and unsafe approach to on-train revenue protection during the current Covid-19 lockdown. The findings suggest that while the majority of Train Operating Companies have suspended these tasks, a significant minority are putting workers at increased and unnecessary risk by requiring staff to undertake on-train revenue inspection and ticket inspection duties in confined spaces.

“This disparity is particularly inexplicable given the DfT is managing all rail franchises in England via Emergency Recovery Measures Agreements. The DfT needs to ensure, as a matter of urgency, that consistent measures are taken across the railway to protect these key workers.

“I am seeking confirmation from the DfT by no later than Monday 22nd February, that it will immediately ensure that these duties are suspended for the duration of the current lockdown across all Train Operating Companies. If the DfT fails to do this, RMT will have no option but to consider what further action it can take to ensure its members’ safety during the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic.

“As recent passenger research by Transport Focus found, staff play a central role in helping passengers feel safe and secure on the train, and during the current lockdown, staff should be focusing on the core functions of assurance, accessibility and safety, rather than undertaking non-essential tasks that make it virtually impossible to social distance.

“Under no circumstances will RMT allow its members to be put at unnecessary risk of coming into contact with Covid-19 at work.”

Ends.
 
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Kite159

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“As recent passenger research by Transport Focus found, staff play a central role in helping passengers feel safe and secure on the train, and during the current lockdown, staff should be focusing on the core functions of assurance, accessibility and safety, rather than undertaking non-essential tasks that make it virtually impossible to social distance.

“Under no circumstances will RMT allow its members to be put at unnecessary risk of coming into contact with Covid-19 at work.”

So they want the guards to remain locked up in the rear cab, only popping out to do the doors without a care at what is happening in the passenger area (i.e. drug carriers or anti-social behaviour)?

And increase risk for barrier staff when someone arrives at a gated station being unable to purchase a ticket due to no (working) TVM etc?

I'm sure any passengers will soon get wind of no revenue checks and won't bother buying tickets if travelling between stations with no gates, or only buying a ticket to the closest station to bypass barriers, similar to Wales/Scotland. Increasing the cost of the railways to the taxpayer and increasing the chance of future cut-backs in order to balance the books as the endless money tap won't last forever, at some point they will say enough is enough and improvements need to be made.

Leaving the decision to the staff member to decide if they want to do revenue if loadings are low enough and they think it's safe enough to check tickets. A blanket "ban" will encourage more pay when challenged passengers. If they feel the train is too busy to safely enter the passenger area then they can stay in the rear cab area
 
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DDB

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Nearly 8 in 10 respondents said they would be prepared to invoke their employer’s ‘worksafe’ procedure if they had Covid-19 safety concerns whilst undertaking on-train revenue protection or ticket inspection duties.

Persumably this worksafe procedure would involve staying in the cab if it wasn't safe to do revenue duties on a particular occasion so there isn't actually a problem?

By requesting this publicly everyone will know that trains have no checks and so they will fill up with undesirables making it harder for those of us who have to use them to maintain social distancing.

I can't think how to end this post without using rude words to describe the leadership of the RMT but that's not allowed so working out what words I would use is left as an exercise for the reader.
 

Horizon22

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by still requiring them to undertake these non-essential duties in confined spaces such as on board trains

Ah so revenue duties are now "non-essential", no point in checking whether there are legal fare-paying customers on a service then? On a service already dealing with reduced revenue? As for confined spaces, I've never heard the RMT have issue with this before.

Staff should be focusing on the core functions of assurance, accessibility and safety, rather than undertaking non-essential tasks that make it virtually impossible to social distance.

And how are they going to provide "assurance" and be "accessible" if they're not in the saloons? And if they're not there already, what harm is a ticket check? Just ask that people leave them on a seat nearby for viewing. Some of these things are quite contradictory compared to say, the OBS dispute. Many guards I've spoken to him are more than happy going through the train and were pleased when the ban was lifted.

It's hardly a change from their usual rhetroic in press releases though!
 

Watershed

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Railway Gazette article out today advising RMT have written to government asking to suspend all on train ticket checks during lockdown

Full RMT press release

RMT demands suspension of on-train ticketing duties as survey reveals the operators putting staff at severe COVID risk.

RAIL UNION RMT is today demanding that the Government immediately suspends on-train revenue protection and ticket inspection across all Train Operating Companies, after a survey of RMT on-board staff indicates that 7 out of 17 Train Operating Companies (TOCs) operating through national contracts are putting their staff at increased risk by still requiring them to undertake these non-essential duties in confined spaces such as on board trains, despite the current lockdown, rather than allowing staff to focus on passenger assurance, accessibility and safety.

The survey findings indicate that while 10 Train Operating Companies operating under national contracts, including those managed by the Welsh and Scottish Governments, have suspended on-train revenue protection and ticket inspection during the current lockdown, seven, which are managed by the DfT, are still putting staff at increased risk of coming into contact with Covid-19 by requiring them to undertake on-train revenue protection or ticket inspection duties, even though social distancing cannot be maintained. This is in contrast to the first UK lockdown in 2020, when all on-train revenue protection and ticket inspection was suspended as a safety measure.

The seven Train Operating Companies that the survey indicates are currently requiring staff to undertake on-train revenue protection or ticket inspection duties are: CrossCountry; LNER; Northern; GWR; SWR; Avanti West Coast; C2C.

Of those workers who are still being required to do on-train revenue protection or ticket inspection, nearly 70% believe these duties should be suspended. And shockingly, fewer than 2 in 10 are satisfied with the arrangements their employer has put in place to protect them from Covid-19 risks at work.

Nearly 8 in 10 respondents said they would be prepared to invoke their employer’s ‘worksafe’ procedure if they had Covid-19 safety concerns whilst undertaking on-train revenue protection or ticket inspection duties.

In light of RMT’s serious concerns, General Secretary Mick Cash has written to the Secretary of State, Grant Shapps, to demand the immediate suspension of on-train revenue protection and ticket inspection duties for the duration of the current lockdown whilst also allowing staff to focus on safety, assurance and accessibility.

General Secretary Mick Cash said:

“These survey findings reveal an inconsistent and unsafe approach to on-train revenue protection during the current Covid-19 lockdown. The findings suggest that while the majority of Train Operating Companies have suspended these tasks, a significant minority are putting workers at increased and unnecessary risk by requiring staff to undertake on-train revenue inspection and ticket inspection duties in confined spaces.

“This disparity is particularly inexplicable given the DfT is managing all rail franchises in England via Emergency Recovery Measures Agreements. The DfT needs to ensure, as a matter of urgency, that consistent measures are taken across the railway to protect these key workers.

“I am seeking confirmation from the DfT by no later than Monday 22nd February, that it will immediately ensure that these duties are suspended for the duration of the current lockdown across all Train Operating Companies. If the DfT fails to do this, RMT will have no option but to consider what further action it can take to ensure its members’ safety during the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic.

“As recent passenger research by Transport Focus found, staff play a central role in helping passengers feel safe and secure on the train, and during the current lockdown, staff should be focusing on the core functions of assurance, accessibility and safety, rather than undertaking non-essential tasks that make it virtually impossible to social distance.

“Under no circumstances will RMT allow its members to be put at unnecessary risk of coming into contact with Covid-19 at work.”

Ends.
It's unclear why they think they have the standing to complain on behalf of (partly) non-unionised management grade employees being forced to do their jobs (shock horror).

Their statement is riddled with contradictions - on the one hand they say that guards should be focused on passenger assurance and accessibility, but how could you possibly do either of those things without a similarly close level of contact as inspecting tickets?

The government has not revoked the 1m+ rule, at least not in England - the use of face coverings is considered an adequate mitigation to allow for 1m distancing (i.e. passenger sitting in window seat and conductor checking tickets from the aisle).

It's, unsurprisingly, pure political posturing for them to put this at the door of the DfT when it's one of the few things still under the control of the individual operators.

Each TOC will have done its own risk assessment to determine how it can reduce the risk with ticket checks to ALARP. ALARP does not mean zero, particularly because commercial considerations factor into what's considered reasonably practicable. Their use of the "10 out of 17" line is disingenuous, as if to suggest the other 7 can't possibly be doing things safely.

If 8 out of 10 employees would not be afraid of activating Worksafe if needed, then what's the issue? Staff can undertake inspections if it's safe, or retreat to the cab if it's not.

They should be reporting the matter to the ORR and HSE if they had genuine safety concerns. But as there is no indication they have done so...
 

bramling

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It's unclear why they think they have the standing to complain on behalf of (partly) non-unionised management grade employees being forced to do their jobs (shock horror).

Their statement is riddled with contradictions - on the one hand they say that guards should be focused on passenger assurance and accessibility, but how could you possibly do either of those things without a similarly close level of contact as inspecting tickets?

The government has not revoked the 1m+ rule, at least not in England - the use of face coverings is considered an adequate mitigation to allow for 1m distancing (i.e. passenger sitting in window seat and conductor checking tickets from the aisle).

It's, unsurprisingly, pure political posturing for them to put this at the door of the DfT when it's one of the few things still under the control of the individual operators.

Each TOC will have done its own risk assessment to determine how it can reduce the risk with ticket checks to ALARP. ALARP does not mean zero, particularly because commercial considerations factor into what's considered reasonably practicable. Their use of the "10 out of 17" line is disingenuous, as if to suggest the other 7 can't possibly be doing things safely.

If 8 out of 10 employees would not be afraid of activating Worksafe if needed, then what's the issue? Staff can undertake inspections if it's safe, or retreat to the cab if it's not.

They should be reporting the matter to the ORR and HSE if they had genuine safety concerns. But as there is no indication they have done so...

I’d imagine part of the difficulty is what happens if an issue or irregularity is identified. There’s then the potential for a close-up confrontation.

This is a difficult one to square, as the flip side of the coin is that with many stations on the regional TOCs lacking ticket facilities, some level of on-train work is pretty much essential.

But I’m not sure *revenue protection*, as opposed to ticket selling, could be deemed as essential. The London commuter TOCs have an advantage as they can readily move a lot of their revenue activity to stations. That’s certainly what’s happening round here with GTR.

I’d certainly advocate that TOCs who can practicably do this should be doing so.
 

Chriso

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With the roadmap out do we know if the RMT are still pushing for no on board ticket checks?

Disappointed tonight to see two groups of roaming teens numbered 10 plus drinking and taking drugs on the cross city. The guard managed to prevent a group of around 15 boarding at Sutton Coldfield.

This is the problem when the local idiots get wind of a free railway, although I have to admit in my experience even at the best of times revenue protection is scarce on that line

In credit all New Streets gatelines were fully working (bar Hill St)
 
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Chriso

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The guard would have been unaware I mentioned it to security at New St on the platform who could see the scum in action he said he would contact BTP.

I was impressed the guard managed to stop 15+ boarding at Sutton Coldfield. The cross city line of all lines I have used during lockdown inc many South Eastern inners seems extremely feral at the moment
 

Chriso

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Ticket check by guard on the 17:05 Waterloo to Eastleigh yesterday between Waterloo and Woking
 

greyman42

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Did a return from York to Cheltenham yesterday. Ticket checks in both directions.
 

Kite159

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Ticket checked yesterday when heading to Whitchurch, sounded like there was a chancer behind me who claimed to have boarded at the previous station (was already on the train when I boarded). Shame the guard also gave her a railcard discount.

No check the other way later on so still hit & miss it seems.
 

route101

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Still no checks on Scotrail nor at stations. I did notice they have taken the ' tickets from another station on ' option off the TVMs. No doubt to stop people buying ticket from last station to get through the barrier.
 

Kite159

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Still no checks on Scotrail nor at stations. I did notice they have taken the ' tickets from another station on ' option off the TVMs. No doubt to stop people buying ticket from last station to get through the barrier.

To stop people doughnuting if travelling between 2 stations with barriers. As they can still buy short to the first station to bypass the barriers at the start (say Glasgow Central to Cardonald/Crossmyloof) but limits options at the other end.

Although nothing stopping the chancer from simply buying an e-ticket on their phone to bypass barriers at the other end (which also avoids queuing up to potentially get questioned when you someone claims to have arrived from Ashfield at Queen Street)
 

route101

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To stop people doughnuting if travelling between 2 stations with barriers. As they can still buy short to the first station to bypass the barriers at the start (say Glasgow Central to Cardonald/Crossmyloof) but limits options at the other end.

Although nothing stopping the chancer from simply buying an e-ticket on their phone to bypass barriers at the other end (which also avoids queuing up to potentially get questioned when you someone claims to have arrived from Ashfield at Queen Street)
They must of looked at data and seen loads of tickets from Crossmyloof to Glasgow Central being sold. Scotrail don't do e tickets so may be through the Trainline.

I used the ticket from another station option to split tickets.
 

Andy Pacer

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A few days ago I had reason to make a short journey Syston - Leicester- South Wigston (and then the equivalent return later), and had no ticket checks.
 

Chriso

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On a trip to Kings Lynn from London yday via Peterborough (outbound) and returning via Cambridge. I had no checks. Peterborough’s gateline was working but the exit only gap in the face was not policed and been used by people to enter. Kings Lynn also had a side gate to exit but this was shut after the arrival of the train with barriers working and controlling entry. Cambridge gates fully working.
 

asharpe

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On a Northern train from Leeds to Skipton yesterday evening "rush" there were two revenue guys checking all tickets. They got through the train before Kirkstall.

The guard was checking all tickets and happily selling tickets on my way in that morning. I still find it odd the keenness to sell tickets on what is a penalty fare route.
 

_toommm_

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Still no checks on TfW as I believe the guards aren't allowed out the rear cab unless they have to operate the doors.

Northern is about a 50% success - more so on Manchester to Crewe line. Glossop Line tends not to get ticket checks at night due to the rough 'uns at Hattersley (probably). You only tend to see the guards when they dispatch from the middle door at Ashburys.

TPE and CrossCountry I get gripped on most of my journeys.
 

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