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Headbolt Lane progress updates

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Skie

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The whole point of the new purpose built terminus at Headbolt Lane is the removal of the concrete block from the middle of the trackbed, since the recent crash revealed how dangerous it is for passengers to be stood in the path of an oncoming train that fails to stop at the buffers. It certainly will not be permissible in future to walk under the bridge.
Not really, given that passengers will access the south Merseyrail platform at Headbolt Lane by walking across a bit of platform between the two lines.

Plus the crash happened just before the Headbolt Lane detailed plans were published, so it won’t have factored into any of the decisions leading up to it.

The real point of Headbolt lanes design is operational (to assist with turnaround by having 2 single lines) and future proofing for through running to Skem or Wigan from one of those lines.
 
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Bletchleyite

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The whole point of the new purpose built terminus at Headbolt Lane is the removal of the concrete block from the middle of the trackbed, since the recent crash revealed how dangerous it is for passengers to be stood in the path of an oncoming train that fails to stop at the buffers. It certainly will not be permissible in future to walk under the bridge.

It's really not, unless you're going to ban passengers from every terminus in the country. And as others have said, you walk along one of those concrete blocks at Headbolt, too.

The slightly odd Headbolt Lane layout is to provide for level access without forking out on lifts, but also to provide two terminus lines for Merseyrail because an extra unit is added so two will be there at the same time. If/when Merseyrail goes to Wigan, the block and the whole present Wigan platform will be removed, and a footbridge with lifts be installed, and it'll just be a normal two platform through station.
 

LPJOHN

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Photo taken this afternoon from the bridge on Glovers Brow. Sorry the photo is not that great, it was taken using my iPhone.

A new bus service No 319 was recently started from Skelmersdale to Kirkby, the bus stops on Kirkby Row which is near Kirkby station. It takes about 25 minutes from Skelmersdale to Kirkby.
 

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urbophile

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Photo taken this afternoon from the bridge on Glovers Brow. Sorry the photo is not that great, it was taken using my iPhone.

A new bus service No 319 was recently started from Skelmersdale to Kirkby, the bus stops on Kirkby Row which is near Kirkby station. It takes about 25 minutes from Skelmersdale to Kirkby.
Presumably this will be diverted to (or via) Headbolt Lane when that opens.
 

Gathursty

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The bus seems to pass achingly close to Maghull North on it's way between Skelmersdale and Kirkby, however justifying a call at Maghull en route seems a bit pointless given it goes to both Kirkby railway AND bus station for onward connections.

I'll add driving times for Merseyrail stations near to Skelmersdale for information (From Concourse):
Kirkby - 14 minutes
Ormskirk - 13 minutes
Aughton Park - 14 minutes
Town Green - 15 minutes
Maghull North - 12 minutes
Old Roan - 14 minutes

*Rainford - 8 minutes
*Upholland - 7 minutes
*Headbolt Lane - 14 minutes

*Might be worth considering bus links to here in the near future.
 

Parjon

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Meerkat

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As a poor substitute for a rail link, the lack of integrated, decent value ticketing makes this an exceptionally poor offering for this poor substitute!

How can it possibly succeed.
How much does integrated ticketing matter now most folk use contactless?
 

Parjon

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How much does integrated ticketing matter now most folk use contactless?
Assuming one can tap in tap out on the bus:

1) You still have to buy a train ticket when you get to Kirkby (faff) and
2) the cost is on top, therefore competing with a better value bus ticket covering the whole journey.

The faff involved in buying separate tickets at the interchange is likely to make the full distance bus ticket seem all the more preferable.
 

Meerkat

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Assuming one can tap in tap out on the bus:
1) You still have to buy a train ticket when you get to Kirkby (faff) and
2) the cost is on top, therefore competing with a better value bus ticket covering the whole journey.
Even if you can’t tap in and out don’t you just get on, tell the driver what you want, then tap the contactless payment gadget?
Isnt Merseyrail tap in and out? I assumed it was without knowing.
 

Starmill

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Isnt Merseyrail tap in and out? I assumed it was without knowing.
No. You must visit the ticket office. At some stations there's a ticket machine.

Even if you can’t tap in and out don’t you just get on, tell the driver what you want, then tap the contactless payment gadget?
You do have to then take your ticket, yes. The total cost is quite high too. Car parking however is completely free.

Isn't connecting the two lines the whole reason the Northern platform is able to be disassembled much easier than the merseyrail ones (post #183)
I think the post you're quoting is really asking about why there's no crossover between the new Kirkby East Jn and Headbolt Lane.
 

Bletchleyite

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Even if you can’t tap in and out don’t you just get on, tell the driver what you want, then tap the contactless payment gadget?
Isnt Merseyrail tap in and out? I assumed it was without knowing.

No, Merseyrail's approach to ticketing is still in about 1975. There aren't even TVMs, just one booking office window.

If both bus and train offered tap in, tap out then it would indeed be a bit moot.

However the total fare really should be the same as Ormskirk. At present it'd be about two quid more.
 

Starmill

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No, Merseyrail's approach to ticketing is still in about 1975. There aren't even TVMs, just one booking office window.

If both bus and train offered tap in, tap out then it would indeed be a bit moot.

However the total fare really should be the same as Ormskirk. At present it'd be about two quid more.
There are some TVMs, Kirkby has one. But not very many. I don't know if there will be one at Headbolt Lane.

I heard somewhere the Wigan platform at Headbolt Lane has been designed to be less substantial than the two Liverpool ones to make it easily removable should extension to Skem or Wigan be approved in the future.
Do you or @Bletchleyite know where you may have read this please? If it was in the July 2022 edition of Modern Railways, unfortunately I seem to have misplaced my copy.
 

childwallblues

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No, Merseyrail's approach to ticketing is still in about 1975. There aren't even TVMs, just one booking office window.

If both bus and train offered tap in, tap out then it would indeed be a bit moot.

However the total fare really should be the same as Ormskirk. At present it'd be about two quid more.
I do not use Merseyrail stations too much but do use the City Line more. There is a TVM at Liverpool South Parkway a Merseyrail managed station.
 

Bletchleyite

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I do not use Merseyrail stations too much but do use the City Line more. There is a TVM at Liverpool South Parkway a Merseyrail managed station.

It's been stated that there is in fact a TVM at Kirkby as well as the booking office window, though they are very rare on the electric network. I also don't think they issue Saveaways.

The City Line is just Northern and mostly follows their policies other than being painted yellow and having better booking office hours, it's very different from the Northern and Wirral Lines. Indeed, the TVM I recall at South Parkway is a Northern one, put there to allow collection of ticket on departure because Merseyrail wouldn't do it themselves for ages.
 

snowball

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@snowball please might you have a copy of the article from last July to hand?
Sadly not. Somewhat to my surprise I found the remains of the July issue fairly quickly, but the relevant pages are gone. To reduce the piles of paper that infest my home, I usually tear out pages I've read and put them in the recycling.

There may be others on here who keep their old issues, or whose subscription includes the online edition.
 

Brian1947

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There is an excellent video on Youtube by Don Coffey named, I believe, Wakefield to Knowsley Binliner that shows the detailed workings of this service and how it operates on the single line section beyond Rainford.

AFAIK there will be no need for any operational changes once Headbolt Lane opens, Dale Lane ground frame being east of the Wigan platform. A bit late in the day for adding a second line. The services also operates Saturday morning, but cancellations are not infrequent.
 

Baxenden Bank

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There are some TVMs, Kirkby has one. But not very many. I don't know if there will be one at Headbolt Lane.


Do you or @Bletchleyite know where you may have read this please? If it was in the July 2022 edition of Modern Railways, unfortunately I seem to have misplaced my copy.
It says: "the small concrete dividing wall can be removed easily should LCRCA succeed with its long-term plan to extend services through to Wigan".

There is no reference to the platform being removed. The plan would suggest that you retain the bay terminating platform and the Wigan/diesel service platform becomes the second platform on a through single line. The platform over the (removed) walkway would become redundant.
 

Bletchleyite

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It says: "the small concrete dividing wall can be removed easily should LCRCA succeed with its long-term plan to extend services through to Wigan".

There is no reference to the platform being removed. The plan would suggest that you retain the bay terminating platform and the Wigan/diesel service platform becomes the second platform on a through single line. The platform over the (removed) walkway would become redundant.

Though that would leave a very long walk to half the Liverpool trains (assuming 2tph to Wigan).

Plus here we have:

How will the station support proposals for future development of services to Skelmersdale?

Merseytravel is working with our industry stakeholders including Lancashire County Council to consider a further extension of the line to Skelmersdale. Proposals are at an early stage of development, but this station has been designed to take into account this future extension with passive provision for a passenger footbridge and potential additional space for an extension of the car park in the future.

Obviously Skem is now out, but it does clearly state that a footbridge would be installed. No point doing that otherwise, unless it's purely to carry footpath access to the station from that side?
 

Shaw S Hunter

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I am aware of that. That is the reason why I worded myposting as I did, as this matter of Merseyrail extension into Wigan Wallgate from Kirkby has been a talking shop for many years now, when third rail was the only option in those early days
My impression is that the LAs merely note the possibility of extending the Merseyrail service without actually having any desire or enthusiasm to do so. The strongest proponents of the idea seem to be mostly members here. And I regularly point out the distinct disadvantages to the idea in terms of affecting actual passenger demand.

I don't see any need to move it; a new station building, car park and access could be built on spare land in Pimbo and use the existing platforms (keeping the existing entrance as well as no doubt there are people it suits).
From having worked trains there I suspect a fair proportion of the few actual users of Upholland would be better served by direct access to Pimbo though it would of course keep costs down if a revamped rail access to the area was based on keeping/extending the existing platforms.

It would be interesting to know how many people drive and park in Ormskirk, Maghull (North) and Kirkby now?
Wouldn't it just! You would hope that Merseytravel surveys this from time to time.
 
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Baxenden Bank

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Though that would leave a very long walk to half the Liverpool trains (assuming 2tph to Wigan).

Plus here we have:



Obviously Skem is now out, but it does clearly state that a footbridge would be installed. No point doing that otherwise, unless it's purely to carry footpath access to the station from that side?
Yes, it would be a longer walk, but it would be on the same side as the station building, car park, bus stops etc. A footbridge with lifts would enable the 'far' platform to remain in use but would also be necessary to retain access to the station from the area south of the station. Swings and roundabouts as to which is preferable. One long dog-legged platform or two platforms opposite each other in a 'traditional' arrangement.
 

Scouse77

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When extended it will be a two platform arrangement. There's passive provision for a lift/bridge combo.
 

dvfmlfc

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The 319 bus service from Skem to Kirkby. The thing is, this has already been tried before. In 1980. Ribble services 395/396 were introduced to run from Skem (via Tanhouse, Digmoor, etc) to connect with trains at Kirkby, giving them a journey time of exactly one hour between Skem and Liverpool Central. The initiative was a dismal failure due to a couple of things - no through-ticketing and not a huge amount of time was saved transferring from bus to train, compared to the through bus journey. I suspect Merseyside PTE were behind the scheme, it had all their hallmarks (the aforementioned ticketing issue) in the run-up to a major rationalisation of bus services in the Kirkby area.

The M58 doesn't go to Liverpool city centre. It terminates at Switch Island (Merseyside's most bonkers road junction) where a couple of options are available to the car driver to negotiate their way into the centre of town. Good luck!
 

snowball

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Not only does this cab video show the line on which electrification has since started, but also its first half-minute appears to show that only the most south-easterly part of the bridge is propped.

 
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snowball

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Not only does this cab video show the line on which electrification has since started, but also its first half-minute appears to show that only the most south-easterly part of the bridge is propped.
And a view from the other line, going under the other span, can be found at the very end of this cab video, in which it's even more noticeable - only the extreme beginning of the bridge is propped.

 

WAO

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Scaling the Wallgate bridge deck height above rail top, to rail gauge gives c4.72m.

Given the latest insulating coating and ROCS, wiring does not look insurmountable for a 20mph limit.

The condition of the propped bridge is far more suspect.

WAO
 
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