Health and Safety? (Lymington sacking)

[DarloRich]

It cant just be taken away - unless the T&C allow for it. Gross Misconduct is often enougth. It will also depend on the type of pension and the type of contribution. I think that might be a job for the legal team to sort out!

As far as i am aware (generally) if it is not taken away the "pot" is frozen until retirment age then the money paid out on a pro rata basis. (often that is only YOUR money not all the money!)

 

[singhaboy]

Perhaps his scientology membership has not helped his career: http://www.our-home.org/ianfaletto/myself.htm

 

[Matt Taylor]

Further reading:

http://notroswell.com/2011/05/the-faletto-fiasco/


This whole episode proves the rule that you should let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[kennethw]

the above seems to be a fair report on the situation. I initially heard the story via BBC news and the local paper which takes the line of "local hero sacked for preventing train crash". It took reading this thread to find that the incident took place at the Pier station, without that piece of information one would assume the incident took place at the Town station, which is where he worked.

It would be interesting to see the CCTV footage of where the trolley actually was. The line ends in a sand drag with buffer stop, which is where passenger access is. I am inclined to think most likely whever dumped the trolley did not walk the lenght of the platform, but took the easy option of pushing it straight off the platform edge in the vicinity of the buffer stop, and the incident was not just concerning the trolley, but the litter picking as well.

Electricity can arc, so you don't have to touch the live rail to get a shock. Sometimes in damp weather, passengers in trolleybuses which used a similar voltage would recieve shocks, the offending buses would have to be taken out of service and dried out.

"Train crash" conjures up images of derailment, telescoped coaches, injuries and so on, but it seems that the worst scenario would be a low speed derailment, maybe a few passengers waiting to get out falling to the floor. Don't underestimate the cutting and crushing power of the wheels which is why being on railway tracks is so dangerous. One of the most dangerous places in my raiway career were the sidings where wagons and coaches might be left with only the vacuum brake holding the vehicle. The vacuum leaks off and the wagon or coach goes walkabouts silently and will cut off an arm or leg of someone in the way. Probably at low speed the trolley would simply be crushed.

Again, a danger signal could have been given to the driver of the train, stop the train short of the obstruction and get the trolley removed by those qualified to do so

SWT have had him in their sights because he has not heeded prior warnings about misconduct . You can't have two captains on the same ship, reminds me during my time in the Post Office it was "the union says this, the union says that." But your contract of employment is not with the union, neither does the union pay your wages. Presumably SWT have gone through the oral and then written warnings procedure because I thought that they would have had to show that they had tried to work things out unless gross misconduct such as being under the influence of drink or drugs had occured

Sadly, for all his enthusiasm, he has seen unable to grasp that he is a crewmember not the captain of good ship Lymington Branch

 

[passmore]

Further reading:

http://notroswell.com/2011/05/the-faletto-fiasco/


This whole episode proves the rule that you should let the facts get in the way of a good story.

I think that sums up the situation pretty well and I agree with you entirely, Matt.

I still believe that SWT should train their non-operational staff in PTS training but the old cry of 'health'n'safety gone mad' is becoming more and more of an excuse for people unable to grasp basic safety rules.

 

[Greenback]

Predictably, The Sun has a few comments today about 'Stationmaster' Mr Faletto being a hero and preventing a tragedy. I doubt they would print a balanced view of safe railway operations, so it's pointless anyone trying!

 

[kennethw]

In that case, all shopping trolleys should carry a health and saftey warning

BEWARE - if this trolley is in a railway station, a train crash will occur

It was not me who said the Sun is basically a comic apart from the two outstanding features on page 3.

I ascertained that the toilets on the slam door stock on the Lymington branch were sealed off. How about tipping off the Sun regarding toilets on the replacement stock being accessible and randy students from Brock college are preventing passengers from using them for their designated purpose by using them for sex. Yes, someone actually had a quikie between Lymington Town and Lymington Pier

Better make sure a Sun reptile - sorry repoter - does not read this He or she might believe this post

 

[jon0844]

Better make sure a Sun reptile - sorry repoter - does not read this He or she might believe this post

You're underestimating just how smart a Sun reporter is. Few people seem to believe it, but they're mostly a very well educated bunch - simply writing for their target audience. They do it exceptionally well, and there are style and writing guides to ensure all staff do it well.

They therefore know exactly what makes a good story, just like the Daily Mail does. I'm sure that they know exactly what the truth is, or isn't, but sadly that isn't quite so important at times!

 

[deanparkr]

Ian now has the full support of the RMT union according to the Echo:

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9034966.Sacked_rail_worker_gets_full_support_of_union/

 

[Greenback]

I would prefer to see a statement from the RMT themselves, rather than rely on a local newspaper quotation of a local vicar...

 

[Tom B]

Given the RMT's ability to call a strike over a change in the type of biscuits in the tearoom, is their public silence not slightly telling...?

 

[SS4]

You're underestimating just how smart a Sun reporter is. Few people seem to believe it, but they're mostly a very well educated bunch - simply writing for their target audience. They do it exceptionally well, and there are style and writing guides to ensure all staff do it well.

They therefore know exactly what makes a good story, just like the Daily Mail does. I'm sure that they know exactly what the truth is, or isn't, but sadly that isn't quite so important at times!

I'd be inclined to agree. It takes an intelligent person to lie en masse, I'd even go as far to say that there is editorial pressure to be more sensationalist which of course means angrier and more shocking.

Even the OP was hooked (look at the thread's title)

 

[jon0844]

Yes, there is a certain style for the paper, and they're masters at creating good headlines and which bits to put in capitals/bold type.

They have a brief to write for an audience with a mental age of 11/12, which is why it's actually so easy to read the paper. As the country gets increasingly dumbed down, it's no wonder sales are so high. The Daily Mail is equally sharp at appealing to middle England that want reassurance that the country is going to the dogs, and it's all the fault of someone else!

Every paper has its remit and its target audience. Of course, The Sun is very good at switching to go with popular opinion, right down to switching allegiance to a political party when it thinks the current Government is going to lose.

People want to read a paper that mirrors their own opinions, not read things that make them question what they think - or even realise that maybe they were wrong.

 

[EM2]

People want to read a paper that mirrors their own opinions, not read things that make them question what they think - or even realise that maybe they were wrong.

Funnily enough, I used to work with someone who read the Mail and the Sun. I once mentioned that I was surprised he'd read them and he said 'What's the point in reading something I agree with?'. Interesting point...

 

[jon0844]

Fair enough. I think he's probably in the minority though.

Mind you, when it comes to the Daily Mail there probably are as many people who read the paper (well, the online paper - given they wouldn't pay for it) just to be outraged by 'what they've said now' as buy it because it reflects their views.

From an online point of view, all that extra traffic earns them a fortune in ad revenue. No different than all the people who hate things like X Factor or Big Brother and just watch to reconfirm just how bad the shows are - and so they can moan to everyone about how bad/fixed/dumb it is.

 

[kennethw]

You're underestimating just how smart a Sun reporter is. Few people seem to believe it, but they're mostly a very well educated bunch - simply writing for their target audience. They do it exceptionally well, and there are style and writing guides to ensure all staff do it well.

They therefore know exactly what makes a good story, just like the Daily Mail does. I'm sure that they know exactly what the truth is, or isn't, but sadly that isn't quite so important at times!

doesn't say much for the target adience then, likewise those of Daily Mail whose headlines always seem to shout doom and gloom
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ian now has the full support of the RMT union according to the Echo:

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9034966.Sacked_rail_worker_gets_full_support_of_union/

note the Echo says the trolley was at Lymington Town station, I understand the incident took place at the Pier station

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Don't be fooled by the sun, it's a very clever newspaper. Whilst they sometimes publish outlandish stories (like the daily mail) they always remain on just the right side of libel legislation (unlike the DM).

 

[Smudger105e]

Given the RMT's ability to call a strike over a change in the type of biscuits in the tearoom, is their public silence not slightly telling...?

The RMT (or any Trades Union) cannot just 'call a strike'. The membership has to be ballotted. Bob Crow cannot call strikes without the persmission of the Union members. Why do people seems to have the view that 'he' will call a strike for insignificant issues (change of biscwits?) Or are people with this view just believing everything written in the right wing (gutter?) press?

 

[jon0844]

What biscuits do they currently have in the tearoom then?

 

[Clip]

They have a brief to write for an audience with a mental age of 11/12, which is why it's actually so easy to read the paper..

Brilliant , thanks for that put down there. Im guessing i better tell my boss that i have to low a mental age to do the job i have been doing exceedingly well for the last few years so that he may sack me and employ you because you are so high brow and can lord it over everyone else with your smart remarks.



your arrogance is actually far far worse then what the sun reports on believe me.

 

[Hydro]

Brilliant , thanks for that put down there. Im guessing i better tell my boss that i have to low a mental age to do the job i have been doing exceedingly well for the last few years so that he may sack me and employ you because you are so high brow and can lord it over everyone else with your smart remarks.



your arrogance is actually far far worse then what the sun reports on believe me.

It's not a dig. The writing and editorial style is actually "designed" as it were, to be able to be read by everyone, including the lowest common denominator. It's a fact that the Sun, and other Red Top tabloids are written in a simple punchy style that aims to get news over to a larger "demographic" (I hate that word). Newspapers target people as much as TV does.

 

[jon0844]

Brilliant , thanks for that put down there. Im guessing i better tell my boss that i have to low a mental age to do the job i have been doing exceedingly well for the last few years so that he may sack me and employ you because you are so high brow and can lord it over everyone else with your smart remarks.

your arrogance is actually far far worse then what the sun reports on believe me.

It's true though. Sorry if you don't like that, or take offence. As a journalist, I've written for The Sun (and others) and you don't have to have a mental age of 11/12 to read it - so I fail to see why you consider it a put down.

I read The Sun from time to time, like any other paper, and surely you can see how it is written and don't consider it high brow? But, so what? Nobody is saying you need to read something that goes to the other extreme and patronises its reader?

The Sun is written for the lowest common denominator. That does not mean you are an idiot or that anyone thinks you're an idiot. Nor does it mean those who write for it are idiots - because they are not.

So, take a chill pill and carry on!

BTW, even the BBC is now dumbing down its news. They argue that the BBC Three/Radio One style 'news minute' and vastly cut down news stories on BBC Online are to make news more accessible, and widen the audience who are too busy to read text-heavy, 'boring' copy.

Who am I to argue that this is a bad thing if it gets more people taking an interest in the news?

I'll be honest and admit that while I might read a long story on something I feel I know a little bit about, I'm happy to read 'bite sized' news on other things.

Update: How freaky; just had a call from a mate at the Sun who has asked me for some quotes about a story, so I'll be in there tomorrow (and online!).

 

[Clip]

It's true though. Sorry if you don't like that, or take offence. As a journalist, I've written for The Sun (and others) and you don't have to have a mental age of 11/12 to read it - so I fail to see why you consider it a put down.

Its a put down because the very words you wrote were

They have a brief to write for an audience with a mental age of 11/12

yet i dont see many school kids walking to school reading the sun.

I read The Sun from time to time, like any other paper, and surely you can see how it is written and don't consider it high brow? But, so what? Nobody is saying you need to read something that goes to the other extreme and patronises its reader?

The Sun is written for the lowest common denominator. That does not mean you are an idiot or that anyone thinks you're an idiot. Nor does it mean those who write for it are idiots - because they are not.

.

Actually you are calling people an idiot for what you wrote directly above, being as condescending and as patronising as you could be, being a reporter who has written for the sun im guessing you find this all to easy.

Im not saying i get my full intellectual needs from reading the sun - there are other media outlets who themselves, bend the stories for who they are trying reach - But the sun is actually a lot easier to read when you nipping between your stations and only have 10 -15 mins to catch up on whats going on.

Maybe you should take your Journalistic ability to this story in hand and actually write what is the real story and get it out there rather then try and denigrate people who read the sun.

 

[jon0844]

Oh dear. Mental age is not actual age for one thing. I believe, but this is off the top of my head, that the mental age of a 12 year old is an IQ of 120.

Anyway, it is what it is. That's a fact and indisputable. If you are angry with me for revealing this, I apologise.

If you think it's out of order, stop buying the paper because that is how people are told to write and it isn't going to change. It's incredibly successful, so why would they change it?

They have The Times as their more high-brow title. But, I'd prefer to the read The Sun and I'm not embarrassed about it.

I don't consider that reading a paper written to be readable and accessible by a wide audience makes me an idiot (your word, not mine).

I wonder why you feel that you are being insulted by learning something that has been the case for years! You are allowed to read it with a higher IQ, or if you have a lower IQ. But, a paper needs a policy and this is what it is.

 

[OxtedL]

Its a put down...

Honestly! It is a FACT that the Sun is written as if it were going to be read by a person with a mental age of 11/12. I can't see how you can take offence at that? Surely you don't believe he was trying to say that everyone who reads the Sun has a mental age of 11/12?!

If you're offended by that, you need to find something better to do with your time...maybe read a rail forum?

 

[O L Leigh]

Mental ages have nothing to do with it.

Mrs Leigh (who works as teacher in a centre for kids with speech and language difficulties) did once tell me a real nugget, the precise details of which currently escape me and I'm not going to go and wake her up now to obtain them. However, an independent assessment of The Sun by education professionals discovered that the writing and language used were suitable for someone with a reading age of something in the region of 8.

Please note, there is a difference between a reading age and a mental age, even though the media sometimes report the reading age of an individual to infer that they are a bit thick or under-developed even though this is not necessarily the case.

O L Leigh

 

[OxtedL]

(I'll let myself out the back...)

 

[Geezertronic]

yet i dont see many school kids walking to school reading the sun.

Yet they all seem to know where Page 3 is

 

[me123]

Mental ages have nothing to do with it.

Mrs Leigh (who works as teacher in a centre for kids with speech and language difficulties) did once tell me a real nugget, the precise details of which currently escape me and I'm not going to go and wake her up now to obtain them. However, an independent assessment of The Sun by education professionals discovered that the writing and language used were suitable for someone with a reading age of something in the region of 8.

Please note, there is a difference between a reading age and a mental age, even though the media sometimes report the reading age of an individual to infer that they are a bit thick or under-developed even though this is not necessarily the case.

O L Leigh

Ironically, the newspapers that tend to report these things also tend to have a similarly low reading age...

 

[Greenback]

The Sun is written to be accessible, That is why it is so much easier to flick through it than the Mail when you are on a tea break. There are lots of pictures, you can pick up the stories quickly and the headlines are usually pitched towards the UK.

I will have a quick read of the paper if I happen to find a copy. Just because it can be read by someone with a reading age of 8 or a mental age of 12, does not mean that everyone who reads it is like that!