Heat related issues (25 July 2019 and subsequent days)

[bluegoblin7]

In contrast I travelled earlier Rickmansworth to Kings Cross on the Met - all fine , bar the fact that off peak the fast lines from Croxley Jct are not used with the result everything on the slow lines blocks back and crawls- such that my train was terminated short at Moorgate. Odd way to run a 4 track railway with nothing wrong.

I’m not at work today so I don’t know for certain, but I would assume that the Harrow Hot Weather Plan was in place - there is a set of points north of Harrow that, quite simply, doesn’t like the heat, and are known to fail. When rail temperatures rise alternative plans are put in place to protect overall service resilience, and prevent the junction from failing. Similar things happen on NR AIUI. This also protects the Chiltern service, but means that southbound fast services have to run down the Local line as opposed to the Main (not fast/slow in this area).

Whilst this does have the result of requiring some services to be short-tripped, it guarantees overall resilience. Peak flows are all west/north of Moorgate on the Met.

TFL in there wisdom decided a few years back that passengers wouldn't understand a mix of fast and all stations trains on the met hence all slow off peak, same reasoning results in most cases buses have to run the full length of the route all day even if the demand isn't equal throughout the route.

Actually with the Met line the issue is not with the variety of stopping patterns, but about increasing capacity south of Moor Park. The difference in journey times is negligible.

 

[DarloRich]

We need to remember their is the argument that NR have been somewhat unprepared as well the TOCs mabye considering this intense heatwave has been predicted for over a week and NR clearly weren’t prepared for the amount of issues caused by the heat on the network.

They both have done their best considering the situation of course but this is still a learning curve we cant ignore unpreparedness on something like the railway

You really have no idea what you are talking about. None
Please stop

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I’m not at work today so I don’t know for certain, but I would assume that the Harrow Hot Weather Plan was in place - there is a set of points north of Harrow that, quite simply, doesn’t like the heat, and are known to fail. When rail temperatures rise alternative plans are put in place to protect overall service resilience, and prevent the junction from failing. Similar things happen on NR AIUI. This also protects the Chiltern service, but means that southbound fast services have to run down the Local line as opposed to the Main (not fast/slow in this area).

Whilst this does have the result of requiring some services to be short-tripped, it guarantees overall resilience. Peak flows are all west/north of Moorgate on the Met.



Actually with the Met line the issue is not with the variety of stopping patterns, but about increasing capacity south of Moor Park. The difference in journey times is negligible.

I am a huge fan of the Met (having had some good relations with it in the days of Crossrail 1) - always a pleasure to travel on it. I did note that certain sets of key points - Harrow North Junction are painted / sprayed white and there was the odd PW /S&T bloke around. Good precautions I guess.

Train loadings - off peak - very decent too. From talking to certain locals , - a good few went home to St Albans yesterday evening that way - with the 321 bus or the Abbey Line. S stock air con is a great boon.

 

[alangla]

I suppose one plus of the 800/1/2 units is that there should always be auxiliary power available to run the aircon, even with the wires wrapped round the train. Does anyone know if one of these has been involved in a real wires down incident (other than the empty one near Paddington a while ago) and whether the aircon & lights kept working?

 

[Bikeman78]

Nol they don't, the robustness of the UK rail network is poor in my experience. It goes tits up in hot weather, tits up in cold weather, tits up in wet weather, tits up if the sun shines a bit too bright, tits up when it snows. I'm just glad I have a home and a job close to each other so that I don't rely on it.

This is why I'll hopefully always live within cycling distance of work. Yes it's not great cycling five miles in 30 degrees but it's more reliable that any of the alternatives.

 

[amateur]

This is why I'll hopefully always live within cycling distance of work. Yes it's not great cycling five miles in 30 degrees but it's more reliable that any of the alternatives.

Not reliable if you get a puncture on your tyre!

 

[sharpley]

Not reliable if you get a puncture on your tyre!

Getting a puncture doesn't make cycling unreliable. Unless it happens everyday of course.

 

[Plethora]

Switzerland isn't exactly a tropical country. What they've been doing since forever though is they've been building expensive and solid infrastructure, rather than build expensive infrastructure using cheapest means possible and then complain that this or that isn't possible and if you make everything private things will be better (when in fact they get even worse because there are many more pockets to fill ad more corners to cut).

Switzerland spend the most per capita on rail out of any country in Europe (https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaf...gin-59122ed9-aeaa-4587-83e7-09983a79db42.html). We, rightly or wrongly, have more diverse callings on the public purse. I am not sure privatisation comes into it, though it is an attractive scapegoat.

 

[TUC]

Switzerland spend the most per capita on rail out of any country in Europe (https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaf...gin-59122ed9-aeaa-4587-83e7-09983a79db42.html). We, rightly or wrongly, have more diverse callings on the public purse. I am not sure privatisation comes into it, though it is an attractive scapegoat.

Switzerland also has a combination of private and public operators. It is not an example of a state owned system.

 

[Antman]

Seems all the travel bulletins about St Pancras is giving people the impression that HS1 services are affected.

 

[talltim]

In typical British fashion, I bet there’s water related delays today!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

A good article in Wired magazine putting to rest many of the myths about the current problems with heat on the railways.

Nothing substantial that hasn’t already been said in this thread but it might be a link to pass on as an antidote to some of the more stupendously ignorant Tweets.

Too long to quote in its entirety, but here’s the 5th paragraph:

Gareth Dennis, railway engineering consultant, says steel works across a roughly 60-degree temperature operating range, while Network Rail notes that rails can be 20 degrees warmer than air temperature. In order for rails to function in winter temperatures without cracking, the steel in British rails is designed to operate between roughly -10 and 30 degrees without any stress, says Kevin Groves, chief spokesperson for Network Rail, though the rails can handle up to 36 degrees without buckling. "If you live in Saudi Arabia, you just shift your rail up the engineering scale say from +10 to +50, as track has the same engineering range wherever you are," he explains. "You just prepare it based on your typical climate."

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/trains-cancelled-heat-uk

 

[jon0844]

I was amazed to read about this. Looking at the pictures, the bloke was more or less at International Junction, so he had ran quite some distance from Waterloo along the track, I don't think that he could have gained access to the track other than from the platforms. The dog was found, uninjured, some time next morning. The bloke may be facing charges of trespass and obstructing the railway.

Reading comments online, you'd assume it wouldn't be in the public interest as despite it causing a power shut off that then had people roasting on trains, the general consensus (by a massive margin) is that it was to save a dog and was fine - and everyone would have done the same thing. Some consider the man a hero for trying to protect man's best friend, and attacked anyone who said it was selfish and caused people to suffer in the heat.

I even saw people saying that if someone didn't like hot trains to stay at home.

How odd that without this incident, everyone was moaning about how hot the trains were. Next time people are stuck on a train, release a dog!

 

[AndrewE]

Switzerland also has a combination of private and public operators. It is not an example of a state owned system.

...except that the "privately owned" operators are mostly owned by local authorities, so their public transport remit is more important than the money-making aspect.
e.g. Wikipedia says

BLS AG is a Swiss railway company created by the 2006 merger of BLS Lötschbergbahn and Regionalverkehr Mittelland AG. It is 55.8% owned by the canton of Berne, and 21.7% by the Swiss Confederation"

 

[Bald Rick]

A good article in Wired magazine putting to rest many of the myths about the current problems with heat on the railways.

Nothing substantial that hasn’t already been said in this thread but it might be a link to pass on as an antidote to some of the more stupendously ignorant Tweets.

Too long to quote in its entirety, but here’s the 5th paragraph:



https://www.wired.co.uk/article/trains-cancelled-heat-uk

Brilliant article, and a good find.

 

[AndrewE]

Brilliant article, and a good find.

Maybe quite good for an uninformed public, but I suspect that

There's more to help rails than stressing. The buckling risk can also be reduced by improving the materials the track is fixed with or laid onto. Ballast is the bed on which track is laid, and in the UK it's often gravel. The heavier and more solid ballast is, the better the rails can withstand heat. Slab track used in Austria and parts of Japan uses concrete as a base, but it's up to four times as expensive as standard construction.

is completely unfair, and maintains the media pretence that UK rail is primitive and amateurish. Ballast procurement has been subject to quite a strict standard for decades, including things like hardness and angularity of the stone.

 

[Bald Rick]

Maybe quite good for an uninformed public, but I suspect that
is completely unfair, and maintains the media pretence that UK rail is primitive and amateurish. Ballast procurement has been subject to quite a strict standard for decades, including things like hardness and angularity of the stone.

I missed that, yes you are quite right.

There is still quite a lot of poor ballast out there though!

 

[jon0844]

Brilliant article, and a good find.

She's a good journalist (she worked with an ex-colleague of mine for some years) and probably spoke to people in the know, some of whom may have been a little too honest or had an axe to grind!

 

[philthetube]

With a plank between the coaches?

Means you need guard rails but if the distance isn't too far and you have train crew on either side with helping hands.

Perhaps H&S have decided it's safer to amble people down a ladder (including turning away when it's a lady in a short skirt, even though she may fall off!), across a couple of metres of ballast and equipment, then back up another ladder.

Very rare this is possible, even if you have the equipment to do it.

Pendolino doors are not wide enough to allow guard rails then staff assisting on a bridge.

For this to be possible with any stock the two trains would have to be on Straight track with both sets of rails at the same height, cant would usually make it impossible on curves, the space between tracks would have to be relatively small, imagine a 12 foot long plank unsupported from below, and the two trains would have to be the same stock, or at least with floor levels at the same height

 

[ashkeba]

For this to be possible with any stock the two trains would have to be on Straight track with both sets of rails at the same height, cant would usually make it impossible on curves, the space between tracks would have to be relatively small, imagine a 12 foot long plank unsupported from below, and the two trains would have to be the same stock, or at least with floor levels at the same height

Why unsupported from below? Surely our fine rail engineers could design a van-transportable small mobile mini transfer platform with a deck (plank if you prefer) that may slope or twist to deal with height and cant differences which can be sat on the ballast between two units for easier evacuations of large numbers of people. It's not like evacuation is a very rare occurance, sadly.

 

[ainsworth74]

The heat has now left us so it would seem that the purpose of this thread has been served. Anyone who has questions on specific issues is welcome to start a dedicated thread to discuss that.