According to TfL's single fare finder, Reading to Heathrow costs £14 irrespective of route, whereas Paddington to Heathrow costs £25 on Heathrow Express. Would travelling from Reading via Paddington be charged at the former or latter fare?
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Heathrow Express prices from Reading
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It depends on whether you touch out and back in at Paddington or not.
If you touch out and then back in on platforms 6 or 7 at Paddington, you will pay the sum of the fare from Reading to Paddington, and the Heathrow Express fare. If you don't touch anywhere between Reading and Heathrow, you will pay £14.
A fare via Paddington / Paddington Crossrail isn't specified.
mangyiscute
Established Member
It's worth noting that I don't think there are any more non heathrow express trains booked to use platforms 6/7 so I don't think that you'll be able to get through these gates apart from early morning and late evening when the gates might be open.
I'm also not sure whether you would be seen as having a valid ticket if you were stopped on the Heathrow Express ticket and your ticket was checked (I have no idea if it shows where you touched in when your card is checked), although if you just walked through the open barriers then i dont think they'd be able to do anything besides just charging you the £25 fare - on tfl's website, it says under the single fare finder "Fares shown do not include travel on Gatwick Express, Heathrow Express or Southeastern high speed services unless stated." so this would technically not be valid
There's nothing in the Conditions that suggests that you have to touch out and then back in again in the same station. It's also unlikely that the scanner will have access to the tap you made even if it's online. An Oyster card will show where your tap was because it's stored in the card.
Inspection of a Contactless card doesn't currently show where it was touched in, just whether it is not blocked / valid for travel.
As far as I know a revenue inspection cannot charge a higher fare than that applied based on where the touch ins and touch outs are made.
busestrains
On Moderation
Is P6/P7 at London Paddington a separate gateline with no access to other platforms like P13/P14 at London Victoria is? I forget what the layout is? I know some other platforms have had barriers installed in recent years but i presume these are a separate gateline which is unconnected? If so i presume there is no way to travel from Heathrow to Reading via London Paddington or vice versa without touching out and back in again?
A couple of late evening and early morning HX trains use platform 5, and a couple of GWR ones use platform 6/7at the same time
Otherwise unless there's disruption it's unlikely, although as Paddington has an excess of Platforms now XR has moved downstairs it's fairly unlikely they'll get moved to a HX platform, although sometimes HX is moved to other platforms.
In theory should it not OSI, and therefore charge the standard Reading to Heathrow fare?
Correct, P1 is ungated, P2,3,4 and 5 are gated with access between them, P6 and 7 are gated separately with access between them, P8 and 9 ungated, P10 and 11 gated together, and P12 and 14 gated togethe, with access from 10 and 11 to 12 and 14 via the stairs at the other end.
Wow! A single on the RailAir Express coach from Reading to Heathrow is £22....
If one alighted Hayes & Harlington and crossed to the other platform for a Heathrow service, the overall journey time could also be quicker than the coach.
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Basically just the difference between single leg pricing and the way returns are priced.
Anytime Return on the coach is £30.50.
A return on Contactless is twice the single price of £14.00 off-peak, or twice £19.80 if both journeys are at peak time.
busestrains
On Moderation
Many thanks for the confirmation. I suppose the only way then is if the barriers are open or if your Heathrow Express train arrives or leaves from the other platforms which i guess only happens very occasionally. Also i am surprised P8 and P9 are still ungated. I wonder if they will ever put barriers there.
A planning application to gate platforms 8 and 9 at Paddington was made some time ago (and I think approved).
Ticket gates on platforms 8 and 9 at Paddington
As mentioned in the fares part of the forum, it appears that proposals are being brought forward for ticket gates on platforms 8 and 9 at Paddington. This was part of the Direct Award 79. Paddington Platform Ticket Gates The Franchisee shall use all reasonable endeavours to procure by no later...
www.railforums.co.uk
busestrains
On Moderation
Many thanks. That is interesting to see. There does not seem to have been much progress with that recently so i wonder when the work to install the barriers will actually happen. It will also be interesting to see if P1 ever gets barriers in the future too.A planning application to gate platforms 8 and 9 at Paddington was made some time ago (and I think approved).
Ticket gates on platforms 8 and 9 at Paddington
As mentioned in the fares part of the forum, it appears that proposals are being brought forward for ticket gates on platforms 8 and 9 at Paddington. This was part of the Direct Award 79. Paddington Platform Ticket Gates The Franchisee shall use all reasonable endeavours to procure by no later...
Given the width of platform 1 and the fact it would have to be halved to allow movement both inside and outside the paid area, I think it's unlikely. Maybe timetables will be adjusted to better use the vacated EL platforms so that P1 is only used for the sleeper and/or emergencies.
Yes it would either need to be split with a barrier down the middle to allow access to all the crew rooms, offices, 1st class lounge etc. and it also allows access to the car park. Elizabeth line still has some access rights over 1 or 2 platforms at the higher end should there be a need, also for early morning / late night and some weekend services.
busestrains
On Moderation
Surely the lounge and offices and staff rooms could be put within the gateline. Anyone accessing these would either have a ticket or be a staff member. So it might not be that difficult to just put a gateline to access the whole area then you could still use the full width of the platform. I am not sure about the car park but surely there is an alternative route to walk to and from the car park instead.
What about the station entrance halfway down the platform?
In my view, that is the place to put the gateline for platform 1, in a consistent manner to platform 12, with passengers for the rear part of the train walking back down the platform.
(The other issue with gating platform 1 is that once platform 8 and 9 are gated, the only way to get to the underground is via the escalators on platform 12 whereas if it stays ungated, the bridge can still be accessed via the stairs there.)
Leaving platform 1 as a generally unused platform seems easiest.
mangyiscute
Established Member
I would just note that while it's almost impossible for you to be "caught", this is technically an invalid route for Reading to Heathrow since contactless fares are routed not via Heathrow Express unless explicitly stated
This isn't true, there is no concept of valid and invalid routeing when using PAYG, it is up to the system to determine the route you took and therefore charge the appropriate fare. The routes applied to fares are for the system to work out the appropriate fare. The TfL Conditions of Carriage set out your obligations as to when you need to tap in and out, and state the following:
Therefore if you are allowed onto a HX service without tapping into the platform 6 and 7 barriers, as long as you are tapped in, it is still valid, whether another train got you onto the platform, or the HX service is departing from a different platform. This does come with the caveat that if staff direct you to tap in again you must do so.
Haywain
Veteran Member
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Without disputing what you say, do ticket checks still take place on HEx services, and what do they record for contactless payment cards?
Even if there is can they do anything? They can't see anything on contactless, and on Oyster there will be the deduction from the card that RPIs look for, as you're tapped in. I don't believe there's any logic for charging the higher fare based on a tap on a revenue device, and you shouldn't be charged a maximum fare when you're tapped in.
Thank you all for your responses. I came to the same conclusion as above that the coach seemed rather overpriced considering the cheaper and same speed Elizabeth Line (EL) choice. It would have been good to be able to go via Paddington in case of an EL delay/cancellation, but for an additional £25 I'm probably happy waiting.
You won't be using Oyster from beyond West Drayton!
Last few times I’ve travelled on HEx there were no on-board checks. I think they just rely on the gates at Paddington to ensure the premium fare is paid.
Paul Kelly
Verified Rep - BR Fares
Very much so, especially considering there is now an Elizabeth Line train from Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow every 15 minutes (so never a long wait) and that the bus has been doing a detour via Braywick Cemetery adding 5-10 minutes to the journey time - although I just double-checked the Railair site there now to back up what I'm saying and it seems the extra stop has recently been removed - can anyone confirm?
mangyiscute
Established Member
Yeah I think I remember seeing the Maidenhead stop is being removed
Just to note, passing through Paddington this morning, there is a retractable barrier across the gap between platforms 5 and 6, and plenty of staff about, so it is not possible to travel into platforms 2 to 5, then out of 6 or 7 without going out of the barriers and back in again, thereby triggering separate fares for Reading to Paddington and Paddington to Heathrow.
No work appears to have been done on the barrier installation on platforms 8 and 9 yet.
No work appears to have been done on the barrier installation on platforms 8 and 9 yet.
mangyiscute
Established Member
Yeah you'd have to pray that you get lucky and either your gwr train comes in on platforms 6/7, there's a heathrow express train that's been put on another platform or the 6/7 barriers are randomly open
A related question. If I'm travelling from Heathrow to Reading (or vice versa), changing at Hayes and Harlington, then as has been said the TfL contactless fare is £14 single off peak, and because only contactless payment (not Oyster) is accepted at Reading, Railcards cannot be used. However, the National Rail Enquiries website (and also brfares.com) quotes a fare of £21.90 using exactly the same Elizabeth Line trains, and Railcard discounts do apply (though the TfL farer is still cheaper). Can anyone explain this inconsistency, please? I've contacted NRE but don't expect a reply before I'm due to travel. (I know there may be GWR services from Hayes and Harlington to Reading where the TfL fares technically don't apply, but those weren't the ones listed in the journey planner.)
mangyiscute
Established Member
I think the contactless fares have been set to half the price of a return ticket for the relevant journey (give or take like 50p) so for example Reading to Paddington is £22.70 off peak return so the off peak contactless fare is £11.30. Reading to Heathrow return is £28.80 so that's where the £14 comes from (roughly half of it) - and then who know how that £21.90 was decided, usually the singles are like 10p cheaper than the returns (eg the reading to london single is £22.60) but this one does not seem to be
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