Heathrow Ticketing

[johnny_t]

I appreciate that not everyone will agree with me here, but bear in mind that Heathrow is where many foreigners will arrive into the country and need to start buying tickets...

I recently bought a ticket from London Underground Zones 1-6, home to York. I am aware that the Elizabeth Line to Heathrow used to have a box around the airport saying that special fares applied, but that has now disappeared. This led me to think that 'maybe' I could use the Elizabeth Line instead for novelty value - It's on the same map, in the same zone, the logo is similar, etc. When I arrived at Heathrow, I first of all asked one of the people that were selling Heathrow Express tickets, but they seemed to have no idea what Zone 6 even was. I then asked someone in Elizabeth Line uniform, who said it would be OK. When my ticket didn't work in the gate, I spoke to the gate staff who also said OK and let me through.

Once down there, it turned out that the Elizabeth Line was all messed up and it was going to be at least 23 minutes to the next one, so I decided to go on the Piccadilly line instead. Instead of putting my ticket into the gate to get out, I went and explained the situation directly to the gate staff, who then proceeded to give me a lecture on why it wasn't valid.

Fair enough, but if I were a foreigner, I might find it somewhat confusing why this train, to London, that you have to go very deeply underground for is classed as London Overground, and that the Underground is somewhere else entirely. And then having Heathrow Express on the same platforms, and then all the business about getting FOC tickets for transferring between terminals etc.

Heathrow seems to have a very particular set of exclusive travel options, that aren't very well explained, at precisely the point where people really need clarity. This seems like a massive problem that must come up day after day.

 

[Snow1964]

A number of tourist guidebooks have for a number of years given advice that basically says Heathrow Express is expensive. I suspect only online guides, not printed guidebooks have Elizabeth line so far, but that will gradually change.

What is not acceptable is to sell a ticket that is valid, but doesn't work the gates at the station selling the ticket. I know Gate problems exist due to poor coding in places, but I am not aware anywhere else where your valid ticket bought at the station turns out to be a dud within seconds at adjacent entry gateline. People are just as likely to go back to ticket office and say it is faulty.

 

[johnny_t]

What is not acceptable is to sell a ticket that is valid, but doesn't work the gates at the station selling the ticket. I know Gate problems exist due to poor coding in places, but I am not aware anywhere else where your valid ticket bought at the station turns out to be a dud within seconds at adjacent entry gateline.

To be fair, I didn't buy the ticket there - I had purchased it in advance. The problem was the people telling me it would be OK up to (and through) the gate...

 

[TFN]

A lot of confusion comes where a single ticket from London Underground Z1-6 isn't valid on the Elizabeth Line but a travelcard Z1-6 is valid.

I agree that at this point TfL might as well add the Special Fares Apply messaging or add an "Airport Zone" messaging, while still allowing the use of Travelcards.

 

[matt_world2004]

I think Heathrow airport should be listed on the map as zone 6a with small print explaining what that means but the fares to Heathrow are unnecessarily complicated and made worse by branding the Elizabeth line like any other tube line

Anything thats a thats a train that doesn't accept tube tickets within its respective zones should not have the roundel on it IMHO

If you asked an average person if the Elizabeth line and central line were run by the same company they would say yes.

 

[Wallsendmag]

A lot of confusion comes where a single ticket from London Underground Z1-6 isn't valid on the Elizabeth Line but a travelcard Z1-6 is valid.

I agree that at this point TfL might as well add the Special Fares Apply messaging or add an "Airport Zone" messaging, while still allowing the use of Travelcards.

Just to confuse you more isn't a single ticket issued to Zone U1256 and the travelcard to Zone R1256 ?

 

[edwin_m]

It's pretty strange that the Elizabeth Line fare is higher than the Piccadilly Line, considering the standard of accommodation is similar and TfL would probably prefer people to use the EL instead of clogging up the PL trains with luggage. It also means passengers from outside London have a choice of three "destinations" on top of the usual range of ticket types, and if buying a through ticket have to plump for one of them at the time of booking.

I'm currently a reasonably frequent flyer via Heathrow and have taken to booking only to London and paying for the airport leg with contactless. As well as allowing e-ticket for the main leg, this allows me to keep my options open according to which route is running well, including using Hex to catch up a few minutes if delayed on the way into London. On recent Sunday journeys it's been a toss-up which route to use depending on closures in force, with the PL on one occasion being cheaper than EL but only 1min slower in the journey planner (both times probably fictional due to unrealistic slow connection times). On the return leg, anyone buying an Advance would be at risk of having to pay again if a delay between Heathrow and London caused them to miss their booked train, but I guess most air passengers would opt for flexible because of the risk of delays to the flight, or in passport control or baggage collection.

 

[Watershed]

You're absolutely right - Heathrow ticketing is quite unnecessarily a dog's breakfast. Arriving passengers are bombarded with adverts and pushy salespeople touting the Heathrow Express, before they ever receive any information about the alternative options for getting to central London.

Obviously the fact that Heathrow Airport runs the Heathrow Express means that they have every incentive to push people this way, rather than to present all the options in a neutral manner.

However, whilst Heathrow also carry some responsibility because of the usurious access charges they levy for use of the Heathrow branch, TfL are also far from innocent here. They nonsensically insistent that the Elizabeth line both is (in the core) and isn't (outside the core) an Underground line for ticketing purposes. This allows them to have their cake and eat it revenue-wise - at the cost of the fare structure having any semblance of logic or simplicity.

TfL have further aggravated the complexity by charging peak PAYG fares at all times for journeys to/from Heathrow that go to/via Zone 1. The zonal map thus bears little proportionality with the fares charged, and it is almost always cheaper to 'split' by touching out/in along the way (at the cost of stepping back a train).

To be honest, you really couldn't make up a more nonsensical set of fares if you tried. And whilst no doubt there will be some who seek to try and defend it by saying that it's "simple" (even if expensive) if you just use PAYG, and that airport passengers are largely a captive market that can be squeezed for every last penny, it's hardly conducive to the kind of good first impression that you'd want people to get of the country, is it?

Just to confuse you more isn't a single ticket issued to Zone U1256 and the travelcard to Zone R1256 ?

Those descriptions aren't shown to passengers these days.

 

[island]

Just to confuse you more isn't a single ticket issued to Zone U1256 and the travelcard to Zone R1256 ?

"Zone R1256" hasn't been printed on tickets for many years.

The single ticket would issue from NLC 0786 whose short name is "ZONE U1256 LONDN" and whose long name is "London Underground Zones 1-6".

The Travelcard would issue to NLC 0035 whose short name is "LONDON ZONES 1-6". Travelcards are still issued in the pre-2014 APTIS style so no long name is available.

 

[Benjwri]

It's pretty strange that the Elizabeth Line fare is higher than the Piccadilly Line, considering the standard of accommodation is similar and TfL would probably prefer people to use the EL instead of clogging up the PL trains with luggage.

To be fair part of the issue is Heathrow charge such high access charges for the tunnels, so if tube prices were to be levelled with Elizabeth Line, the tube price would have to go up rather than the Elizabeth Line down.

 

[Haywain]

To add to the confusion there are also National Rail tickets issued with a destination of Heathrow Underground, and these have sometimes been at a higher price than ticket to Zones U1256 although I don't know if that's the case with any now.

 

[edwin_m]

TfL have further aggravated the complexity by charging peak PAYG fares at all times for journeys to/from Heathrow that go to/via Zone 1. The zonal map thus bears little proportionality with the fares charged, and it is almost always cheaper to 'split' by touching out/in along the way (at the cost of stepping back a train).

As Hatton Cross is in the "free" zone, if you split there during off-peak hours you end up paying less than the previous off-peak through fare. Might not even lose you any time if the first train is for T4 and you want T12 or T5 or vice versa. But it does involve dragging whatever luggage you have up a flight of stairs and down again.

To be fair part of the issue is Heathrow charge such high access charges for the tunnels, so if tube prices were to be levelled with Elizabeth Line, the tube price would have to go up rather than the Elizabeth Line down.

Is the charge per train or per passenger? If it's per train then there's no reason to increase the fare by that route, as extra passengers won't increase the cost to TfL.

 

[Benjwri]

Is the charge per train or per passenger? If it's per train then there's no reason to increase the fare by that route, as extra passengers won't increase the cost to TfL.

My point was they cannot decrease the Elizabeth Line fare, in a reply to a comment saying the Elizabeth Line should be cheap, as I was saying the only way to make it cheaper is to increase the cost of the tube, and this doesn’t make sense.