Heathwick - HS Rail link

[Minstral25]

Article today about a high speed rail link from Heathrow to Gatwick in the daily Torygraph. Seems a good idea but does it need to be high speed or just a regular link along the North Downs line with a new chord at Redhill?

Thoughts

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...wick-and-Heathrow-airports-in-15-minutes.html

 

[HSTEd]

Well if they do build a High Speed route along part of the route of the M25 it might make the business case for a HS "Interconnexion West" on the style of the Paris one more likely to have a positive BCR.
Then we might get a high speed link from HS1 to HS2, the ECML, the WCML and GWML.

 

[Desiro360]

I think its a good idea as it would reduce overcrowding on the Brighton Main Line, the Underground and traffic on the roads. The proposed journey time of just 15 minutes would be an attractive choice to travel direct from Airport to Airport as it avoids the need to travel via Central London.

The trains would have to have 2+2 seating and plenty of space for luggage.

 

[Nym]

I've always said this should be part of the HS2 Heathrow Spur, A through station either underground or at T5 with direct connection by moving walkway / pepole mover to the CTA, T4 and T5. Then all services continue to Gatwick non-stop.

And if there is an 'airside' element to the services, where half of the unit is classed as airside, then it would avoid needing to enter the UK to transit through Gatwick, provided security was not breachable.

 

[Yew]

Personally I like the idea of a 140mph moving walkway between them

 

[bluenoxid]

Article today about a high speed rail link from Heathrow to Gatwick in the daily Torygraph. Seems a good idea but does it need to be high speed or just a regular link along the North Downs line with a new chord at Redhill?

Thoughts

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...wick-and-Heathrow-airports-in-15-minutes.html

We cannot get a southern connection into Heathrow yet we have a fanciful plan to connect two airports together. For heavens sake, lets connect up the major centres of population in this area instead.

A good connection would give those in that area another terminus like Kent and St Pancras,

 

[MCR247]

Sorry but really why do Gatwick and Heathrow really need to be joined?

 

[EM2]

Sorry but really why do Gatwick and Heathrow really need to be joined?

The reasoning seems to be that they can be considered one 'superhub' airport, negating the need for an airport in the Thames estuary. But only if you can get between them quickly, hence the HSR idea.

 

[HSTEd]

In addition if they can be connected with secured "airside" platforms, they will be able to treat Gatwick like two additional terminals at Heathrow with no security for people moving between them.

 

[Oracle]

Around 1965 a link was suggested between the SR at Feltham and the Airport and yet nothing happened. It would have been cost-effective to enable trains to run as well towards Staines, then via Woking to Guildford, Redhill and Gatwick. In the alternative to a heavy-rail link from Feltham, a monorail was suggested.

 

[SwindonPkwy]

The people behind this proposal simply do not understand the airline industry. Heathrow, in particular, is investing huge sums of money to get each airline alliance into its own terminal; including the linking of T3 and T5 airside, for BA's One World partners.
Gatwick serves a very different market; i.e. leisure. Non of the major alliances are going to align their operations to serve a London 'super-hub'. If two city pairs cannot be linked via LHR, then a transfer at CDG, AMS or FRA would be offered. This is the point that BAA makes with regard to Heathrow's third runway.
Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that the third runway should be built. Given the number of daily flights from LHR to Manchester, Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam; all of these could be phased out (taxed) once HS2 and the LHR hub exists. This would then free up runway capacity for additional long haul flights.

 

[WatcherZero]

It seems to be coming out of Whitehall and not from the Airports or rail industry.

My feeling is Government policy is no new runways in the south, but to mollify detractors they have to be seen to be promoting an alternative, preferably rail. The HS2 review has found that the Governments prefered idea of a HS2 link to Heathrow would be useless in phase 1 and negligible BCR in phase 2, if they did do it in phase 2, 2033 and not in phase 1 they cant wait that long. So they are promoting another HS rail link for Heathrow.

Offering good odds Boris is behind this idea as the Estuary idea hasnt caught on and hes been going around for the last couple of months saying if HS2 or Northern Hub happened its only fair that London gets yet more rail investment!!!

 

[tbtc]

We cannot get a southern connection into Heathrow yet we have a fanciful plan to connect two airports together. For heavens sake, lets connect up the major centres of population in this area instead

I agree

 

[dggar]

The account in the Financial Times put the distance at 35 miles.
What would be the top speed before they would have to start braking for the other end.

 

[HSTEd]

The account in the Financial Times put the distance at 35 miles.
What would be the top speed before they would have to start braking for the other end.

A series N700 Shinkansen derived train could probably reach its 170mph top speed, its supposed to be able to do it in 3 minutes from a standing start.

 

[SwindonPkwy]

"Drawn up by civil servants" says it all.
The strategy just doesn't stack up. The government is under pressure from business groups to increase airport capacity in the South East, but has ruled out any more runways. So why build a high speed railway between the two airports that are already operating at near maximum runway capacity? Not to mention the route; as we all know, if 180mph is to be achieved, it needs to be pretty straight and that will involve a lot of tunneling.

 

[Nym]

And money would be better spent on getting the existing projects right, not done on the cheap so they need to be re-done in another 20 or so years (Yes, I'm looking at you HS2 (4Track) and Northern Hub(Ox Road Rebuild and GSJs in Manchester)...)

 

[crewmeal]

Should have happened years ago

 

[Minstral25]

We cannot get a southern connection into Heathrow yet we have a fanciful plan to connect two airports together. For heavens sake, lets connect up the major centres of population in this area instead.

A good connection would give those in that area another terminus like Kent and St Pancras,

Absolutely - I think there is a need for a direct link between the airports but it shouldn't just be a shuttle service.

A new line from Heathrow to Gatwick along the M25 would be useful but it needs Stations at population centres preferably where it crosses other radial lines from London to allow connections. Maybe Staines, Chertsey, Weybridge, Leatherhead and Redhill.

Also it should be able to take freight from the Channel Tunnel and route it around Heathrow to the West of England main line and West Coast Main Line.

This way it's not just Billions of pounds spent for relatively few passengers but a service for everybody - although you would take 30 minutes instead of 15 I don't think that would be a disadvantage.

 

[Nym]

And money would be better spent on getting the existing projects right, not done on the cheap so they need to be re-done in another 20 or so years (Yes, I'm looking at you HS2 (4Track) and Northern Hub(Ox Road Rebuild and GSJs in Manchester)...)

 

[MidlandMainlie]

I've always said this should be part of the HS2 Heathrow Spur, A through station either underground or at T5 with direct connection by moving walkway / pepole mover to the CTA, T4 and T5. Then all services continue to Gatwick non-stop.

And if there is an 'airside' element to the services, where half of the unit is classed as airside, then it would avoid needing to enter the UK to transit through Gatwick, provided security was not breachable.

I agree, as a future extension of the Heathrow spur it makes sense if services can continue on to Gatwick and hopefully carry on and join HS1, so that international services from the north can bypass central London and go via Heathrow, Gatwick and on to the Channel tunnel to Paris or Brussels.

 

[bluenoxid]

I agree, as a future extension of the Heathrow spur it makes sense if services can continue on to Gatwick and hopefully carry on and join HS1, so that international services from the north can bypass central London and go via Heathrow, Gatwick and on to the Channel tunnel to Paris or Brussels.

What the...

We are talking about a line that goes round the bottom of London when both high speed lines roll into the north of London. Seems a lot of money to spend just to connect two lines and link two airports. Gatwick is running at capacity and Heathrow is running at capacity, what will linking them achieve?

 

[WatcherZero]

In theory, the reduction of mirroed flights and more dense passenger loadings. Two small aircraft doing the same route (either at opposite airports or even the same airport) would be replaced by one larger aircraft (from supply of combined passengers of both airports) freeing a slot for a different route or airline.

 

[lookingforit35]

Apart from the predictably annoying fusion of the two names ...... "creating a hub known as Heathwick" (please!!)........ which shows zero imagination and would never be used as these would still be two separate airports, it does show some merit.

Travelling on business often is for just one or two days duration when flying short haul. If you park your car for example at Gatwick, you are pretty much bound to return there which is annoying as you are at the whim of schedules and prices. By opening up a fast rail link, this gives a massive amount of flexibility as you can return to either airport.

Mind you, I'm doubtful that this occassional inconvenience is worth several billion pounds of infrastructure investment!

 

[SwindonPkwy]

According to Wikipedia, 63% of Gatwick's traffic is either Low Cost or Charter. These business models do not rely on interconnecting flights. For that, you need to go to Heathrow where OneWorld, Star Alliance and Skyteam all have a major presence. There simply isn't the synergy between the two airports for this to work.