Heavy handed staff presence at Clapham Junction?

[Sad Sprinter]

I raised this in another thread but I think it deserves a thread of its own. It seems an agency has taken over staffing platforms 5/6 in the mornings and evenings and boy, do I miss the old SWR staff. For someone reason, these new staff take it upon themselves to remind passengers over the tannoy, nearly continuously, to “stand behind the yellow line!”. Growing almost frantic when a train is approaching and bellowing down the platform to the person who has their toes just over the line. Most people have headphones on, and either can’t hear the messages or don’t care.

To make things worse they’ve turned off the automatic “Anne” announcements in favour of announcing the stations themselves. So it’s a near continuous stream of sound. Is this really needed? I presume this is the instruction from the agency themselves rather than a need to heighten safety at that particular part of the station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's always been aggressive there, constant blowing of whistles for example to hurry people up rather than e.g. going to help them put a pram on board. Not a nice place at all, like much of inner South London where there is often quite an attitude among frontline staff (curiously not replicated on the north side nor on London Underground). (To be fair the customers may well be the cause of said attitude!)

The constant waffle sounds like replicating the Tube!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Yes you have a point. The Windsor Line services were always ruthlessly efficient partly because of the rapid boarding and disembarkation at Clapham. The SWT staff contrast greatly with Southern staff, who seem to deploy a more, “I’m here if you need me” attitude rather than a “I’m here to keep you safe” approach

 

[Mrmiyagisdojo]

I raised this in another thread but I think it deserves a thread of its own. It seems an agency has taken over staffing platforms 5/6 in the mornings and evenings and boy, do I miss the old SWR staff. For someone reason, these new staff take it upon themselves to remind passengers over the tannoy, nearly continuously, to “stand behind the yellow line!”. Growing almost frantic when a train is approaching and bellowing down the platform to the person who has their toes just over the line. Most people have headphones on, and either can’t hear the messages or don’t care.

To make things worse they’ve turned off the automatic “Anne” announcements in favour of announcing the stations themselves. So it’s a near continuous stream of sound. Is this really needed? I presume this is the instruction from the agency themselves rather than a need to heighten safety at that particular part of the station.

The announcer on 5 and 6 this morning at around 7.30 didn’t seem to realise he was using a mic so didn’t need to shout every announcement as loud as possible. It would’ve almost been funny if it wasn’t so early in the day however my ears are still ringing.

 

[fandroid]

There are quite a lot of them! On a rather cold breezy day earlier this year I went down to the north side gateline to tap in for the Overground. There was what seemed like a rather large crowd of staff down there sheltering from the weather.

 

[whoosh]

Apparently there's a push nationally about the 'Platform Train Interface' (PTI), and better compliance is going to be expected from passengers regarding the yellow line on platforms, not boarding when hustle alarms are sounding etc.
Maybe it's to do with that. Maybe it's to do with the soon to be driver dispatched 701s.

 

[43066]

I raised this in another thread but I think it deserves a thread of its own. It seems an agency has taken over staffing platforms 5/6 in the mornings and evenings and boy, do I miss the old SWR staff. For someone reason, these new staff take it upon themselves to remind passengers over the tannoy, nearly continuously, to “stand behind the yellow line!”. Growing almost frantic when a train is approaching and bellowing down the platform to the person who has their toes just over the line. Most people have headphones on, and either can’t hear the messages or don’t care.

To make things worse they’ve turned off the automatic “Anne” announcements in favour of announcing the stations themselves. So it’s a near continuous stream of sound. Is this really needed? I presume this is the instruction from the agency themselves rather than a need to heighten safety at that particular part of the station.

Once again the preoccupation some on this forum have with announcements rears its head! I don’t suppose the staff enjoy making the announcements, but people standing too close to the platform edge is the root cause, so it seems a little odd to blame the staff.

If it really bothers you, it’s easy enough to wear noise cancelling headphones, surely!?

Yes you have a point. The Windsor Line services were always ruthlessly efficient partly because of the rapid boarding and disembarkation at Clapham. The SWT staff contrast greatly with Southern staff, who seem to deploy a more, “I’m here if you need me” attitude rather than a “I’m here to keep you safe” approach

Doesn’t that rather suggest the announcements are working?

 

[AdamWW]

One thing I've don't understand is why it's perfectly safe for a member of staff to walk right along the platform edge with their back to the direction the next train is going to come from, but highly dangerous when a passenger steps briefly onto the wrong side of it to get round someone when there's no train in sight.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing I've don't understand is why it's perfectly safe for a member of staff to walk right along the platform edge with their back to the direction the next train is going to come from, but highly dangerous when a passenger steps briefly onto the wrong side of it to get round someone when there's no train in sight.

Often you need to do it to get round a member of staff who's walking such that the only way to pass them is to walk the wrong side of the yellow line. Some staff do seem to utterly lack spatial awareness.

 

[jhy44]

I raised this in another thread but I think it deserves a thread of its own. It seems an agency has taken over staffing platforms 5/6 in the mornings and evenings and boy, do I miss the old SWR staff. For someone reason, these new staff take it upon themselves to remind passengers over the tannoy, nearly continuously, to “stand behind the yellow line!”. Growing almost frantic when a train is approaching and bellowing down the platform to the person who has their toes just over the line. Most people have headphones on, and either can’t hear the messages or don’t care.

To make things worse they’ve turned off the automatic “Anne” announcements in favour of announcing the stations themselves. So it’s a near continuous stream of sound. Is this really needed? I presume this is the instruction from the agency themselves rather than a need to heighten safety at that particular part of the station.

Agreed. I used to regularly travel into London from CJ and it did my nut in. I remember one particular incident where I had headphones on, my foot wasn't even over or even on the yellow line it was merely adjacent to it. The platform was pretty empty and the train wasn't due for about 8 minutes (I think it was a Sunday morning and maybe also a strike day so very few services running and very few passengers about).

The staff in yellow high-vis and megaphone then comes right up into my face and starts screaming 'what is my f**king problem am I deaf, get behind the yellow line'. I pointed out to him that I was already behind the yellow line, and so what if I was deaf? He then mutters vulgar stuff to himself and walks back to the two other high-vis jacket staff waiting further down the platform. Does an empty platform with 5 passengers waiting really need three additional members of staff (in addition to the dispatcher so four in total) to 'guarantee safety' of passengers? Lovely use of taxpayers' money there.

Typical attitude of SWR staff at CJ station unforch. The same ones who open the barriers for their ticketless mates and fist-bump them as they go through. Very glad I no longer have to use that station tbh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The staff in yellow high-vis and megaphone then comes right up into my face and starts screaming 'what is my f**king problem am I deaf, get behind the yellow line'.

Did you report that? Under no circumstances whatsoever should staff ever swear at passengers, not even if the passengers have sworn at them.

 

[Angmering1974]

The staff in yellow high-vis and megaphone then comes right up into my face and starts screaming 'what is my f**king problem am I deaf, get behind the yellow line'.

I'm not a lawyer, but this threatening behaviour should have been reported to the police as a crime under the Public Order Act 1986.

It just so happens that I as a passenger have a POLICY OF ZERO TOLERANCE OF ABUSE AND THREATENING LANGUAGE, as you often see communicated by TOCs, Network Rail etc.

Maybe it's time for passengers to wear bodycams.

 

[Sultan]

Am I allowed to walk along the yellow line (to prove I'm not drunk)?

 

[Oldgaloot]

These are almost certainly agency people, aren't they? SWR have a partner firm for staff provision. On Trak I think they're called. Maybe this is that firm.

 

[43066]

One thing I've don't understand is why it's perfectly safe for a member of staff to walk right along the platform edge with their back to the direction the next train is going to come from, but highly dangerous when a passenger steps briefly onto the wrong side of it to get round someone when there's no train in sight.

It isn’t really for passengers to concern themselves with what trained and competent staff are doing, however those staff do need to worry about untrained, (possibly drunk/mentally ill etc.) passenger behaviour, hence the announcements.

Surely the announcements are preferable to drivers leaning on the horn, deafening everyone on the platform as they go through at line speed, as I’ve had to do several times this week*, delays due to drivers reporting near misses, delays due to trains not being able to be dispatched safely etc.

*it’s getting busier out there, and people seem to have forgotten how to behave.

 

[sheff1]

It isn’t really for passengers to concern themselves with what trained and competent staff are doing,

I am more concerned with what untrained and incompetent staff are doing.

 

[Towers]

It isn’t really for passengers to concern themselves with what trained and competent staff are doing, however those staff do need to worry about untrained, (possibly drunk/mentally ill etc.) passenger behaviour, hence the announcements.

Surely the announcements are preferable to drivers leaning on the horn, deafening everyone on the platform as they go through at line speed, as I’ve had to do several times this week*, delays due to drivers reporting near misses, delays due to trains not being able to be dispatched safely etc.

*it’s getting busier out there, and people seem to have forgotten how to behave.

Thoughts on “trained and competent” where cheap agency labour is concerned may vary!

 

[jhy44]

These are almost certainly agency people, aren't they? SWR have a partner firm for staff provision. On Trak I think they're called. Maybe this is that firm.

I think you may be right. The high-vis people don't look very professional; usually in trainers and sports wear, spend most the time on their phones, don't really look like they feel comfortable etc. Upon reflection I think they're also only ever there on either strike days or event-weekends (like Twickenham rugby?), or at least they have a greater presence then. So maybe SWR are bringing in extra 'external' staff to 'manage customer safety (lol)' on days they feel like CJ may be busier than usual?

I really don't see what they add, and that's not me being negative for the sake of being negative etc. If there is someone stood well past the yellow line just as a train is about to pull in then of course it's right for station staff to tell them to step back for safety reasons, but employing extra staff to stand there and scream at passengers on an empty platform who aren't in any danger, who can provide no information about destinations or routings etc, is a bit Health & Safety box-ticking gone mad.

 

[43066]

I'm not a lawyer, but this threatening behaviour should have been reported to the police as a crime under the Public Order Act 1986.

It just so happens that I as a passenger have a POLICY OF ZERO TOLERANCE OF ABUSE AND THREATENING LANGUAGE, as you often see communicated by TOCs, Network Rail etc.

Maybe it's time for passengers to wear bodycams.

Surely this isn’t a serious post!?

Thoughts on “trained and competent” where cheap agency labour is concerned may vary!

The question posed by @AdamWW appeared to relate to staff generally, rather than specifically agency staff (which is a separate question, and I couldn’t possibly comment on the answer ). Surely it’s obvious to everyone why,
generally speaking, railway staff can safely do things passengers cannot, be that standing beyond the yellow line on platforms, going “on or near the line” (in the track sense), right through to guarding/driving trains etc.

 

[MrJeeves]

Happened to stumble across this today...

Agency staff instructed a man to board train X at the platform for Norbiton after the passenger asked if the train stopped there.

Doors lock. Agency staff asks the guard "do you stop at Norbiton?", guard shakes his head, then gets back on the train and buzzes to depart.

Agency staff starts laughing as the train leaves. Absolutely appalling behaviour.

Also, they don't seem to understand how the PA works and don't wait a second for it to start broadcasting, meaning the start of every single manual announcement is completely cutoff.

 

[AdamWW]

The question posed by @AdamWW appeared to relate to staff generally, rather than specifically agency staff (which is a separate question, and I couldn’t possibly comment on the answer ). Surely it’s obvious to everyone why,
generally speaking, railway staff can safely do things passengers cannot, be that standing beyond the yellow line on platforms, going “on or near the line” (in the track sense), right through to guarding/driving trains etc.

Yes but shouldn't they only be doing things that are potentially dangerous when they need to?

It seems to me that rather than just yelling at people, if staff want people to take the yellow line seriously at all times it would help if they set a good example themselves.

I'm not a fan of "Do as I say not what I do" and it's a bit hard to believe that by briefly stepping over the line with no train coming I'm doing something incredibly dangerous whereas if I just had the right uniform on it would be perfectly safe to walk right along the edge of the platform, with a train due, and my back to the direction it's going to come from.

 

[Towers]

Dispatchers standing in the dispatch corridor ‘beyond the yellow line’ when actually dispatching a train has always struck me as an odd thing to be seen as widely acceptable. If it isn’t safe for a member of the public to be stood there then it can’t be much safer for someone with a hi viz and some basic rules training; neither of those will stop them stumbling and falling under a train, but there we are!

 

[Murray J]

Apparently there's a push nationally about the 'Platform Train Interface' (PTI), and better compliance is going to be expected from passengers regarding the yellow line on platforms, not boarding when hustle alarms are sounding etc.

I can believe that, every time i've been to Gatwick Airport recently there are PA announcements just about every time a train is arriving in or about to depart, often for good reason given the crowds, with many not behind the yellow line.

 

[Purple Train]

Dispatchers standing in the dispatch corridor ‘beyond the yellow line’ when actually dispatching a train has always struck me as an odd thing to be seen as widely acceptable. If it isn’t safe for a member of the public to be stood there then it can’t be much safer for someone with a hi viz and some basic rules training; neither of those will stop them stumbling and falling under a train, but there we are!

I've always assumed that that's the main reason it's kept clear, so that said staff have a view down the train. I do agree in regard to @AdamWW's example though.

 

[joncombe]

I can believe that, every time i've been to Gatwick Airport recently there are PA announcements just about every time a train is arriving in or about to depart, often for good reason given the crowds, with many not behind the yellow line.

Yes but the problem there is people congregating near the escalators and lifts blocking the whole width of the platform (which to be honest is not very wide) so it's often the case that the only way to get to the less crowded parts of the platform is to cross the yellow line. Sometimes too if trains are dividing as south bound Southern services often do you need to get one end of the platform to be in the right section of the train. I wish the staff would focus on getting passengers to spread out along the platform than getting the megaphones out to berate someone for briefly crossing the yellow line when no trains are coming in order to be able to pass along the platform.

 

[Towers]

I've always assumed that that's the main reason it's kept clear, so that said staff have a view down the train. I do agree in regard to @AdamWW's example though.

It’s kept clear because it is deemed an unsafe place to be, owing to your proximity to the train. You’ll see guards moving people clear of it before dispatch at unstaffed stations, too.

 

[1D54]

I was thrown off CJ about 5 years ago and banned from returning for the rest of the day by security for no reason at all.

Another enthusiast unknown to me was also escorted out at around the same time. They said that something was said to a foreign passenger and it was certainly neither of us. We asked them to look at the CCTV to prove us in the right but they said they were not allowed to. This is the first time i have ever spoken about this and it is still upsetting but fortunately i have returned to CJ on numerous occasions since without incident.

 

[Murray J]

Yes but the problem there is people congregating near the escalators and lifts blocking the whole width of the platform (which to be honest is not very wide) so it's often the case that the only way to get to the less crowded parts of the platform is to cross the yellow line. Sometimes too if trains are dividing as south bound Southern services often do you need to get one end of the platform to be in the right section of the train. I wish the staff would focus on getting passengers to spread out along the platform than getting the megaphones out to berate someone for briefly crossing the yellow line when no trains are coming in order to be able to pass along the platform.

Spot on.
I do hear regular announcements trying to get passengers to spread out across the platforms but not as regularly as telling people to not go over the yellow line. Don't think I often see platform staff yelling at customers to get behind the line but plenty of announcements are made to that effect.
Also I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to by trains dividing at Gatwick? I don't think any services are scheduled to divide at Gatwick.

 

[MrJeeves]

Don't think I often see platform staff yelling at customers to get behind the line

Happened like clockwork on every commute for me.

Combine Crawley's rush hour with Gatwick flights and interchanges with North Downs/Arun Valley/Brighton Mainline and slow Redhill Thameslink services and it's a recipe for overcrowding, especially when there's even just a small sprinkling of disruption.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Don't think I often see platform staff yelling at customers to get behind the line but plenty of announcements are made to that effect.

The island platform 13 + 14 at Manchester Piccadilly station certainly has its moments whenever it's busy and/or there's any service disruption.