Heinz Factory near Wigan to get its own siding?

[4F89]

No sidings, all done under a posession.

Why do you need to spend millions to provide a siding? Cant they just stop a train on the running line at night and load directly onto it, as per the trial?

As far as I'm aware, this is the plan

 

[Gloster]

Why not reopen the ICI Nobel sidings at Gathurst? They will be used to dealing with explosive substances there.

 

[AMD]

Why not reopen the ICI Nobel sidings at Gathurst? They will be used to dealing with explosive substances there.

No longer railway property.

 

[507020]

Of course this project can only work if the Government urgently fund curves at Burscough in every direction to provide diversionary resilience between the factory and the Skipton-Colne line that will be needed to take it over the Pennines to/from Hull...

(am I doing this right?)

No because those curves will be needed in conjunction with the Bradford Crossrail and the Preston avoiding line in order to use the Colne - Skipton line as a diversionary route for trains from Southport in case a spaghetti hoop spillage blocks the line to Manchester.

I do have a serious question though. Freight using the Wigan - Southport line is very good news since it is currently passenger only, while the Kirkby line isn’t, but what will happen in the event of 769s obstructing the passage of freight or vice versa and what is a pad as opposed to a siding?

 

[The Planner]

I do have a serious question though. Freight using the Wigan - Southport line is very good news since it is currently passenger only, while the Kirkby line isn’t, but what will happen in the event of 769s obstructing the passage of freight or vice versa and what is a pad as opposed to a siding?

As said before, you wouldnt time it during passenger times. It would be done in a possession. A pad is just an area where you could get access to the train on the mainline.

 

[Gloster]

I do have a serious question though. Freight using the Wigan - Southport line is very good news since it is currently passenger only, while the Kirkby line isn’t, but what will happen in the event of 769s obstructing the passage of freight or vice versa and what is a pad as opposed to a siding?

I think that a pad is just a concrete or tarmacked apron that runs right up to the rails on one side of the line: it is large enough for forklifts to unload from a lorry, turn and load the goods on to the wagon, and for the lorry to turn and depart (or vice-versa). It doesn’t need to be very long as you can always move the train up wagon by wagon.

The loading would normally be done in the middle of the night or occasionally on Sunday mornings when there are long gaps between trains. The process of getting the train to the pad, handling the load, checking the wagons before departure and then getting the train to where it can be recessed can be very drawn out.

Pad is not to be confused with PAD: Pre-assembly depot. This was a civil engineer’s depot where points and crossing were prepared for being used to replace worn-out components. They would usually be laid out on the ground and very carefully measured to check they fitted the drawings for the location they were going to. They would then either be loaded complete on a wagon or carefully dismantled and taken to the site for relaying. (A simple description, there was other work done at a PAD.)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

We all seem to have missed the announcement of a new Boris bridge from East Yorkshire to the Netherlands, given that the article sates (my bold):

Maybe they'll bring the Nord pas de Calais back from Spain and use her from Hull to Rotterdam for this service...? Or is that too much common sense?

 

[zwk500]

I do have a serious question though. Freight using the Wigan - Southport line is very good news since it is currently passenger only, while the Kirkby line isn’t, but what will happen in the event of 769s obstructing the passage of freight or vice versa and what is a pad as opposed to a siding?

The Pad will look something like this: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Lineside-Loading-Guide.pdf

The figures quoted on that document are probably several years out of date.

 

[gingertom]

All adds cost. Heinz would be paying for it.

the bean counters must think the cost is ok.

 

[Rhinojerry]

the bean counters must think the cost is ok.

No pun intended i guess ?

 

[gingertom]

No pun intended i guess ?

a double entendre perhaps.

 

[Gostav]

I think it is really unusual that a goods station without any siding and loading on mainline.

 

[billh]

Wasn't there a Speedlink service years ago bringing cans from Metal Box Co to Heinz? Used to run round at Ashbury's loop in Manchester with a 37 and a (very) few vans. Did Heinz have a siding then? I might be on the wrong track there?

 

[Gloster]

I think it is really unusual that a goods station without any siding and loading on mainline.

I think they have loaded timber on the Far North line using the running line. It is not new: back in the seventies some of the temporary terminals for roadstone for motorway building were just an excavator on a pad.

 

[Pinus contorta]

I think it is really unusual that a goods station without any siding and loading on mainline.

There was a short term arrangement for a quarry near Millom to load its product on the mainline around ten years ago. I think it was destined for an extension of the Drigg storage facility, which of course is rail served.

 

[themiller]

There was a short term arrangement for a quarry near Millom to load its product on the mainline around ten years ago. I think it was destined for an extension of the Drigg storage facility, which of course is rail served.

That’s correct. Stone from Ghyll Scaur quarry was taken to a compound at Aggie’s Lonning just east of Millom. A rake of bogie open wagons was top and tailed by class66s which followed the last southbound passenger from Sellafield and waited just north of Millom until the last service from Barrow had returned there. It then proceeded to the loading pad at Aggie’s Lonning where it was loaded. It then waited until the line reopened in the morning to return north to Sellafield where it reversed in the goods loops before heading south again to Drigg. The pad was constructed of some of the stone that was being transported whilst the corner of the field used for the virtual quarry has been reinstated.

 

[Brian1947]

Wasn't there a Speedlink service years ago bringing cans from Metal Box Co to Heinz? Used to run round at Ashbury's loop in Manchester with a 37 and a (very) few vans. Did Heinz have a siding then? I might be on the wrong track there?

This could have been from when the factory produced baby food in small cans. It must be more than 25 years ago when this ceased, so your thoughts are probably correct. The factory manufactures its cans on site for all the other products packed there, so potential for the sheets of tin plate to arrive by rail.

 

[furnessvale]

Wasn't there a Speedlink service years ago bringing cans from Metal Box Co to Heinz? Used to run round at Ashbury's loop in Manchester with a 37 and a (very) few vans. Did Heinz have a siding then? I might be on the wrong track there?

Not heard of that one, but Metal Box at Westhoughton used to have a Speedlink trip fitting that description into their own private siding.

 

[Meerkat]

I think that a pad is just a concrete or tarmacked apron that runs right up to the rails on one side of the line: it is large enough for forklifts to unload from a lorry, turn and load the goods on to the wagon, and for the lorry to turn and depart (or vice-versa). It doesn’t need to be very long as you can always move the train up wagon by wagon.

The loading would normally be done in the middle of the night or occasionally on Sunday mornings when there are long gaps between trains. The process of getting the train to the pad, handling the load, checking the wagons before departure and then getting the train to where it can be recessed can be very drawn out.

It will probably be swap bodies wont it??

 

[furnessvale]

It will probably be swap bodies wont it??

Almost certainly. A quick swap of bodies on the pad for bodies on the train and away.

 

[trainmania100]

Brown Heinz branded wagons and a ews 66 , perfect

 

[zwk500]

It will probably be swap bodies wont it??

What's the gauge clearance through Wigan Wallgate like?

 

[Meerkat]

What's the gauge clearance through Wigan Wallgate like?

Finding out the hard way could be quite messy!

 

[william]

This will never happen. I've bean here too many times before.

 

[D6130]

Finding out the hard way could be quite messy!

Sandwich Spread?

 

[zwk500]

Finding out the hard way could be quite messy!

Bashed Beans! As it happens, I've checked and it's W8 between Wigan Station Junction and Gathurst Viaduct, although it looks like it's only W7 through Crow's Nest Junction, so could see trains needing to be routed via Eccles then Man Vic, which will be fun to find a path for!

 

[D6130]

Maybe the Eastbound trains would have to run via Warrington and then a circular scenic tour of Cheshire to eventually join the Calder Valley Line at Brewery Junction....like the current Bin Liner and Biomass trains do.

 

[zwk500]

Maybe the Eastbound trains would have to run via Warrington and then a circular scenic tour of Cheshire to eventually join the Calder Valley Line at Brewery Junction....like the current Bin Liner and Biomass trains do.

Could do, it will depend on what wagon/trailer combination they run and the trailing weight.

 

[Mordac]

Brown Heinz branded wagons and a ews 66 , perfect

Should be a class 57 for Heinz

 

[terryc]

What's the gauge clearance through Wigan Wallgate like?

Should be fine. The regular Teeside to Knowsley (66+FKA's?) binliners pass through a-ok