Help, Chiltren court summons

[Danikoko]

I got this with an SJPN notice, and I am worried any help on how to go about it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Haywain]

This is, effectively, a standard letter and we can't give you advice without knowing why you were stopped and spoken to on November 8th.

 

[Danikoko]

I got a ticket after I arrived at the train station, most times I do buy ticket in advance or I pay for it on the train but on this day I did non, but I made a mistake instead of solihul to Birmingham moor street I got the reverse one from Birmingham moor to Solihul, I was still able to use it to go through but then the officer stoped me saying I need to show the one from Solihul

 

[Titfield]

The letter suggests you may have short fared on other occasions. Is this something you have done?

The letter also refers to a railcard though this may just be a standard paragraph and not relevant to your case. Have you claimed a railcard discount? Do you have a valid railcard? If so which one ?

 

[Danikoko]

I think they are talking about the times I refunded some tickets that I didn’t actually use, it wasn’t scanned on the train and at the station so I just sometimes refunded them, I have don my calculations on those tickets and it amounts to £43, if it’s that one

 

[SussexMan]

...I refunded some tickets that I didn’t actually use.

...it wasn’t scanned on the train and at the station so I just sometimes refunded them

So you did use them and refund them? The letter from the TOC talks about honesty being paramount. They appear to be offering you a potential lifeline that they will consider dropping the case so you may want to consider being 100% honest with them and coming to some out-of-court agreement with them. I don't think paying a solicitor would be helpful as the cost of that is likely to be far greater than the cost of an out-of-court settlement. If they do agree to drop the case, I would independently check with the court that they have indeed discontinued the action.

 

[island]

I think they are talking about the times I refunded some tickets that I didn’t actually use, it wasn’t scanned on the train and at the station so I just sometimes refunded them, I have don my calculations on those tickets and it amounts to £43, if it’s that one

If you travelled with a ticket, you did actually use it, even if it wasn't scanned. Submitting a used ticket for a refund is fraud.

Please clarify whether you travelled or not, so we can give accurate advice.

 

[Danikoko]

If you travelled with a ticket, you did actually use it, even if it wasn't scanned. Submitting a used ticket for a refund is fraud.

Please clarify whether you travelled or not, so we can give accurate advice.

If you travelled with a ticket, you did actually use it, even if it wasn't scanned. Submitting a used ticket for a refund is fraud.

Please clarify whether you travelled or not, so we can give accurate advice.

Yes I did travel with the ticket

 

[Fermiboson]

So here OP has committed two separate offences - travelling without a valid ticket on the 8th only (please confirm that you have always held the correct ticket, not short faring etc except for this date), and refund fraud.

While Chiltern are one of the more difficult train companies to deal with, if you co-operate there is still a good chance they will offer you an out of court settlement. You should send a letter promptly to the Chiltern prosecutions department covering the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened and realise it is wrong, and that you understand public interest arguments against fare evasion (i.e. loses the taxpayer millions of £s/yr, etc);
- That you will not be doing it again (if convenient, take measures such as purchasing a season ticket to show commitment to travelling correctly)
- State that you would be very grateful if Chiltern would consider offering you an out of court settlement

If you do get a settlement, the amount will likely be:
- £150 or so admin fee
- Anytime Single for every journey where you have travelled with an invalid ticket or fraudulently refunded etc., undiscounted, without regard for fares paid

You want to calculate what this amount is, and start gathering the amount, as they will expect you to pay this amount in full promptly once the offer is received.

Alternatively, if you are prosecuted (likely under the railway byelaws - I don’t know what they would use for fraudulent refunds, presumably this doesn’t rise to the level where the TOC would consider it worth the effort to pursue a Fraud Act prosecution), there will be:

- A court fine based on your income (or £120/wk whichever is greater) with a discount if a guilty plea is entered early
- Requirement to pay back losses incurred by the TOC, with 40% surcharge

In addition you will receive a criminal conviction, which is non-recordable and does not normally show on DBS checks, but your employer may require you to disclose any convictions you receive.

 

[Haywain]

- A court fine based on your income (or £120/wk whichever is greater) with a discount if a guilty plea is entered early
- Requirement to pay back losses incurred by the TOC, with 40% surcharge

The 40% victim surcharge is levied on the fine, not on what the train company seeks to recover.

 

[Danikoko]

So here OP has committed two separate offences - travelling without a valid ticket on the 8th only (please confirm that you have always held the correct ticket, not short faring etc except for this date), and refund fraud.

While Chiltern are one of the more difficult train companies to deal with, if you co-operate there is still a good chance they will offer you an out of court settlement. You should send a letter promptly to the Chiltern prosecutions department covering the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened and realise it is wrong, and that you understand public interest arguments against fare evasion (i.e. loses the taxpayer millions of £s/yr, etc);
- That you will not be doing it again (if convenient, take measures such as purchasing a season ticket to show commitment to travelling correctly)
- State that you would be very grateful if Chiltern would consider offering you an out of court settlement

If you do get a settlement, the amount will likely be:
- £150 or so admin fee
- Anytime Single for every journey where you have travelled with an invalid ticket or fraudulently refunded etc., undiscounted, without regard for fares paid

You want to calculate what this amount is, and start gathering the amount, as they will expect you to pay this amount in full promptly once the offer is received.

Alternatively, if you are prosecuted (likely under the railway byelaws - I don’t know what they would use for fraudulent refunds, presumably this doesn’t rise to the level where the TOC would consider it worth the effort to pursue a Fraud Act prosecution), there will be:

- A court fine based on your income (or £120/wk whichever is greater) with a discount if a guilty plea is entered early
- Requirement to pay back losses incurred by the TOC, with 40% surcharge

In addition you will receive a criminal conviction, which is non-recordable and does not normally show on DBS checks, but your employer may require you to disclose any convictions you receive.

Thank you very much, i'll send them an email today.