Help! - Notice of Intended Prosecution from Chiltern Railways

[chilternrail12]

Hi All,

I wanted to get some advice from forum members regarding a fare evasion notice I am due to recieve...

I have just received a letter from Chiltern Railways regarding an incident in February 2023. I had bought a ticket infront of a revenue protection officer between gerrards cross and high wycombe, and he took my details down. In the letter I have just received, Chiltern railways are accusing me of avoiding my correct fare on over 200 other occasions in the past year (sounds about right) and I am worried about the actions they might take against me. Is the chance of me receiving an out of court settlement high?

A copy of letter is below:

Dear Mr XXX,

We are in receipt of a report, which advises that on xxth February 2023, a person giving your name and details was spoken to by railway revenue protection staff in connection with a journey between Gerrards Cross and High Wycombe, at the time you failed to show a valid rail ticket for the rail journey that you were making or had made.

Following you being spoken to; the Fraud Investigation Unit submitted a data access request under Schedule 2 Part 1 Paragraph 2 of the Data Protection Act 2018 and GDPR Article 6 (1) (d), to various rail ticket retailers, which has revealed that you may have avoided your correct on xxx other occasions, from March 2022 to March 2023.

The purpose of this letter is to advise you of the report, of any action that my follow from it and to provide you with the opportunity to inform us of any mitigation that you may wish to be considered. This can be sent to the address shown above, or via email; [email protected]

The report of this incident indicates that in the absence of a satisfactory explanation, evidence does exist to warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation. These considerations may include whether any charge should allege an offence against Railway Byelaws (2005), or the Regulation of Railways act 1889.

The company considers this a serious matter, and if we do not hear from you within 14 days of the date of this letter, a summons to a Magistrate's court hearing may be issued without further reference to you.

I am very keen to avoid going to court over this, I am starting University this September and the idea of a criminal conviction worries me. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[FenMan]

How old were you in February 2023?

Assuming you are not a mature student, when did you turn 18?

 

[AlterEgo]

Also what date were you stopped? They’ve six months to lay papers, you may be able to play for time. It’s now July 9th, so if you were stopped on February 9th they have only a month left before they cannot bring proceedings.

 

[Gloster]

I am a non-expert, so others who know more may disagree or contradict my comments. The six month limit does not, I believe, apply if they decide to prosecute using the Fraud Act, for which the limit is six years or more. Chiltern do have a reputation for coming down heavily and I believe there has been at least one case on this forum where they were going to use the Fraud Act. They might have messed up by being dilatory, but it would be best not to bank on that.

 

[Snow1964]

This might be a big problem, appears stopped in February, but the history shows it potentially carries on through to March 2023.

That could rather rule out any apology, learnt lesson when stopped, style reply.

This might be treated as a serial fare evader.

 

[JBuchananGB]

It seems that you are not denying the facts of the situation, i.e. that you evaded the fares on about 200 occasions. Chiltern will at the very least, expect you to pay the full anytime single fare for every such journey, and all their costs for investigating and dealing with the matter. It is however hard to see why, when you have committed about 200 crimes against them, they should not prosecute you in the magistrates court. As a criminal, you should expect a criminal record.
You could try a response apologising and offering to pay an amount to cover the full fares evaded and their administrative costs, and confirming that you will in future always buy the appropriate tickets for your journeys.

But you might think it sensible to employ the services of a solicitor before making any response

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm sure you're aware that this is a very serious situation. It apppears that you have been evading your fares on an industrial scale over a sustained period of time and if something like this doesn't end up in court you do have to wonder exactly how serious an offence needs to be to end up in court. That said I dio believe there is a reasonable chance of Chiltern agreeing to an out of court settlement if you co-operate with them.

They already have details of your online ticket purchasing history so I would suggest being totally hinest with them. I suggest you write a short, concise reply to them confirming the journeys you made and include the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one but sorting this out is going to be expensive whatever happens. If you're offered a settlement Chiltern will likely want you to pay the full Anytime Single fare for every journey (with no credit given for what you've already paid) in addition to their costs for investigating the case. If you are convicted in court then you will have to pay a fine, a surcharge, compensation to Chiltern for the fares avoided and a contribution towards theor court costs. the outstand ing fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[chilternrail12]

Also what date were you stopped? They’ve six months to lay papers, you may be able to play for time. It’s now July 9th, so if you were stopped on February 9th they have only a month left before they cannot bring proceedings.

It was late february sadly, I don't think I'll be able to stall them with emails for this long.

How old were you in February 2023?

Assuming you are not a mature student, when did you turn 18?

I turned 18 in December 2022, and I am aware that the consequences are worse when I am 18 or older.

Thank you all for the replies, I have a question about another post I saw. My letter is directly from Chiltern Railways and not TIL, does that mean this would be a more serious incident?

 

[Hadders]

Chiltern tend to deal with the more serious cases in house.

 

[Gloster]

You have fourteen days from the date of the letter, which is presumably 7 July or earlier. If Chiltern are organised, it may be that they are ready to immediately lay the matter before the court if they do not receive your response by 22 July or, possibly, the 21 July. Whether they can count the date of any offences committed in March 2023 as the operative date I do not know, but I am pretty sure that they do know. (Incidentally, if I am correct in my understanding that you committed a further offence or offences after the initial stop, that is not going to help your case.)

I am a non-expert: if the experts give other advice, follow them.

 

[AlterEgo]

OP: what is the nature of the evasion? Child tickets, no railcard, short faring?

Chiltern do deal with more severe cases in house and you may wish to seek qualified legal advice.

 

[chilternrail12]

OP: what is the nature of the evasion? Child tickets, no railcard, short faring?

Chiltern do deal with more severe cases in house and you may wish to seek qualified legal advice.

both short faring and invalid railcard (16-17), I have done some calculations and I think the amount of money that I could have potentially short-fared is around £2500 , so yeah this is pretty serious.

 

[VT118]

both short faring and invalid railcard (16-17), I have done some calculations and I think the amount of money that I could have potentially short-fared is around £2500 , so yeah this is pretty serious.

Very similar happened to me recently.

I used Gray Hooper Holt as a solicitor and they secured me an out of court settlement. A little pricey but worth it.

 

[AlbertBeale]

both short faring and invalid railcard (16-17), I have done some calculations and I think the amount of money that I could have potentially short-fared is around £2500 , so yeah this is pretty serious.

What combination of wrong railcard, wrong origin/destination, etc, might not be relevant to any calculation of how much "missing fares" payment they want. Whatever you did, if you didn't have an appropriate ticket for a journey then they'll likely consider whatever ticket you did have as invalid and hence anything you did pay as irrelevant; the compensation they want will be based on the full ticket price for the journey, as though you'd paid nothing at all. So the amount relevant is what was the total cost of every "dodgy journey" they can pin on you, assuming that you walked up and got a full price ticket on the spot for every individual journey made. To see the worst that it could be, ignore completely anything you did pay for any of those journeys.

 

[furlong]

What combination of wrong railcard, wrong origin/destination, etc, might not be relevant to any calculation of how much "missing fares" payment they want. Whatever you did, if you didn't have an appropriate ticket for a journey then they'll likely consider whatever ticket you did have as invalid and hence anything you did pay as irrelevant; the compensation they want will be based on the full ticket price for the journey, as though you'd paid nothing at all. So the amount relevant is what was the total cost of every "dodgy journey" they can pin on you, assuming that you walked up and got a full price ticket on the spot for every individual journey made. To see the worst that it could be, ignore completely anything you did pay for any of those journeys.

However that's not necessarily the correct approach in criminal law and people should not be taking what train companies say at face value - using a good solicitor can help (but what you might save on the settlement you may pay instead in legal fees). A settlement/compensation in a criminal case of this type aims to put the train company back into the same financial position it would have been in if the crime had not been committed i.e. it's based on the fares you plausibly would have paid if you hadn't cheated and DOES take into account money already paid. Any 'penalty' comes separately in the form of a court fine and/or prison sentence. Chiltern are not ignorant of this because of the case reported here:
Daily Telegraph

According to prosecutors the fares totalled almost £20,000, although he was ordered to pay back just under £6,000 after submitting his own evidence.

The City barrister, who was cautioned for fare dodging in 2010, was handed a 16-week prison sentence suspended for 12 months and ordered pay £5,892.70 in compensation to Chiltern Railways at City of London Magistrates.

Judge Omotosho said: "Looking at all the evidence in the round I am satisfied that a reasonable attempt has been made by the defendant to calculate loss to the company and in this case the actual loss is £5,892.70 and not the £19,689 as claimed."

chilternrail12 - given the length of time and sums of money involved we would normally suggest getting help from a solicitor in a situation like yours and making sure they are familiar with that particular case. (The train companies might have a valid argument - untested - that they are owed a higher sum under civil law, and a negotiation could lead to a settlement somewhere in between.)

 

[Gloster]

However that's not necessarily the correct approach in criminal law and people should not be taking what train companies say at face value - using a good solicitor can help (but what you might save on the settlement you may pay instead in legal fees). A settlement/compensation in a criminal case of this type aims to put the train company back into the same financial position it would have been in if the crime had not been committed i.e. it's based on the fares you plausibly would have paid if you hadn't cheated and DOES take into account money already paid. Any 'penalty' comes separately in the form of a court fine and/or prison sentence. Chiltern are not ignorant of this because of the case reported here:
Daily Telegraph



chilternrail12 - given the length of time and sums of money involved we would normally suggest getting help from a solicitor in a situation like yours and making sure they are familiar with that particular case. (The train companies might have a valid argument - untested - that they are owed a higher sum under civil law, and a negotiation could lead to a settlement somewhere in between.)

With regard to the Chiltern fare dodging barrister, it is true that he saved somewhere in the region of £14,000. However, it seems that he lost his highly paid job, was disbarred (although he had previously removed himself from the rolls following an earlier conviction) and the regulating authorities in New South Wales, where he was also qualified, were advised. So arguing about the exact figure may have its downsides.

 

[fandroid]

To a degree, the railway company can just use the threat of a court appearance and likely conviction to decide for themselves what they want to settle for out of court. That only works if the defendant wants to avoid court altogether. However, a solicitor is more likely to be able to negotiate with the railway company to avoid a massive settlement than an unqualified defendant could

 

[Haywain]

However that's not necessarily the correct approach in criminal law and people should not be taking what train companies say at face value - using a good solicitor can help (but what you might save on the settlement you may pay instead in legal fees). A settlement/compensation in a criminal case of this type aims to put the train company back into the same financial position it would have been in if the crime had not been committed i.e. it's based on the fares you plausibly would have paid if you hadn't cheated and DOES take into account money already paid. Any 'penalty' comes separately in the form of a court fine and/or prison sentence. Chiltern are not ignorant of this because of the case reported here:
Daily Telegraph



chilternrail12 - given the length of time and sums of money involved we would normally suggest getting help from a solicitor in a situation like yours and making sure they are familiar with that particular case. (The train companies might have a valid argument - untested - that they are owed a higher sum under civil law, and a negotiation could lead to a settlement somewhere in between.)

If the OP engages a solicitor to discuss this it may end up saving a few hundred pounds on the settlement but would be countered by the likely costs incurred for having professional assistance.

 

[AlbertBeale]

What combination of wrong railcard, wrong origin/destination, etc, might not be relevant to any calculation of how much "missing fares" payment they want. Whatever you did, if you didn't have an appropriate ticket for a journey then they'll likely consider whatever ticket you did have as invalid and hence anything you did pay as irrelevant; the compensation they want will be based on the full ticket price for the journey, as though you'd paid nothing at all. So the amount relevant is what was the total cost of every "dodgy journey" they can pin on you, assuming that you walked up and got a full price ticket on the spot for every individual journey made. To see the worst that it could be, ignore completely anything you did pay for any of those journeys.

However that's not necessarily the correct approach in criminal law and people should not be taking what train companies say at face value - using a good solicitor can help (but what you might save on the settlement you may pay instead in legal fees). A settlement/compensation in a criminal case of this type aims to put the train company back into the same financial position it would have been in if the crime had not been committed i.e. it's based on the fares you plausibly would have paid if you hadn't cheated and DOES take into account money already paid. Any 'penalty' comes separately in the form of a court fine and/or prison sentence. Chiltern are not ignorant of this because of the case reported here:
Daily Telegraph



chilternrail12 - given the length of time and sums of money involved we would normally suggest getting help from a solicitor in a situation like yours and making sure they are familiar with that particular case. (The train companies might have a valid argument - untested - that they are owed a higher sum under civil law, and a negotiation could lead to a settlement somewhere in between.)

Yes - I take that point. I suppose my point about what the railway want as "compensation" is more relevant to what would be involved in an out-of-court settlement, to avoid a prosecution (were that possible in this case...). But yes, in court, the railway might have to stick to compensation for their actually quantifiable losses (ie the real price net of what was actually paid).

This can be a reason for the railway to settle out of court, if they get more money at the end of it (as well as avoiding their own hassle in organising their court appearance). However, they might want to balance the deterrent effect of getting criminal convictions for some people who are multiple offenders, against the possible lesser amount of compensation they'd get in court. (And for the person being taken to court, as has been said, any saving in compensation might be more than taken up with other court costs, fine, etc.)

 

[chilternrail12]

New update guys, I managed to secure an out of court settlement for just over £2000. I am so lucky for this, I don’t even know how my email back to them managed this but I am thankful for all your help.

p.s. if anyone is wondering i didnt use a solicitor, i cant afford one.

 

[Hadders]

New update guys, I managed to secure an out of court settlement for just over £2000. I am so lucky for this, I don’t even know how my email back to them managed this but I am thankful for all your help.

p.s. if anyone is wondering i didnt use a solicitor, i cant afford one.

Thanks for letting us know, in the circumstances that's a decent result for you.

Chiltern were very fast in replying to you. Did they write to yo with details of the settlement or was there a phone call at any point?

 

[chilternrail12]

Thanks for letting us know, in the circumstances that's a decent result for you.

Chiltern were very fast in replying to you. Did they write to yo with details of the settlement or was there a phone call at any point?

They wrote back to me in a day, which is considered fast? Maybe my case was very important as its a large sum of money involved. There wasnt a phone call, but 2 separate letters, first one was just talking about mitigation and notice of settlement out of court, second one was the details of settlement and how they calculated the cost.

In the letter they said there was sufficient evidence to prosecute under the fraud act but chose not to, because of fraudulently refunding ticket aswell, so I am quite lucky to have the outcome I wanted.

 

[Staffoe]

Can you share letter you sent?

 

[Gloster]

Can you share letter you sent?

It would be best if you kept your questions to your own thread. No two cases are identical and good advice for one can be bad advice for another; it also causes confusion for all concerned.

 

[Wolfie]

They wrote back to me in a day, which is considered fast? Maybe my case was very important as its a large sum of money involved. There wasnt a phone call, but 2 separate letters, first one was just talking about mitigation and notice of settlement out of court, second one was the details of settlement and how they calculated the cost.

In the letter they said there was sufficient evidence to prosecute under the fraud act but chose not to, because of fraudulently refunding ticket aswell, so I am quite lucky to have the outcome I wanted.

A strong word of advice. Always, always buy the correct ticket going forwards. There are very unlikely to be any further chances offered.

 

[mistakemaker]

Very similar happened to me recently.

I used Gray Hooper Holt as a solicitor and they secured me an out of court settlement. A little pricey but worth it.

How pricey are we talking if it’s alright to discuss with you

 

[Hadders]

How pricey are we talking if it’s alright to discuss with you

Please start your own thread if you are in need of advice. No two cases are exactly the same and we do ask that only one case os discussed in each thread to avoid confusion.

It would be useful if @VT118 could update us but they havn't been active on the forum since August.

 

[VT118]

How pricey are we talking if it’s alright to discuss with you

Around the £1500 mark. Pricey but I couldn't be happier with the service. The resolution was incredibly swift.