Help! Preston to Euston

[blakey1152]

Hi my friend has a ticket from Blackpool North to Euston and is now stuck at Preston due to an incident at oxenholme where there doesn't seem to be a time of it finishing.
Can he travel on the 1010 from Preston to Manchester Piccadilly and get an Avanti service to Euston from there.
He has an off peak return so I'm hoping this routing is valid!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hi my friend has a ticket from Blackpool North to Euston and is now stuck at Preston due to an incident at oxenholme where there doesn't seem to be a time of it finishing.
Can he travel on the 1010 from Preston to Manchester Piccadilly and get an Avanti service to Euston from there.
He has an off peak return so I'm hoping this routing is valid!

Yes, via Manchester is valid (and totally normal) for North West (other than Liverpool) to London. This will not be questioned, loads of people do it, I've done it many times.

 

[blakey1152]

Avanti have said this isn't valid and to wait at Preston!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Avanti have said this isn't valid and to wait at Preston!!

Ignore them and travel anyway. It is valid. If you doubt me, put it in to NRE and get an itinerary, it quite happily generates one.

 

[blakey1152]

https://twitter.com/AvantiWestCoast/status/1673251156951179266

We don't have any acceptance via the route at present Chris. If you did want to travel that way, you'd need to grab a new ticket. - Miles

 

[Haywain]

Avanti have said this isn't valid and to wait at Preston!!

They are wrong. And no ticket acceptance is needed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We don't have any acceptance via the route at present Chris. If you did want to travel that way, you'd need to grab a new ticket. - Miles

Ah, the Twitterati.

They are clueless.

It IS valid. WCML tickets are generally valid via all the branches. Acceptance is irrelevant for an off peak ticket (unless routed Avanti only, but I'm not aware of such a ticket existing), it's valid that way anyway.

You asked, I answered, if you wish to disbelieve me that's up to you! I've done this hundreds of times. I do it by default, indeed, because boarding at a terminus is more pleasant. If really paranoid, call up an itinerary at that fare on NRE and screenshot it, but you will not be questioned for doing this.

Edit: I looked on Twitter and they've corrected themselves and confirmed it's valid anyway - those on Advances would have to wait.

 

[blakey1152]

I don't doubt you at all. I don't trust Avanti lol

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't doubt you at all. I don't trust Avanti lol

I don't either, but their Twitterer has now corrected themselves that it is valid.

It won't be questioned. Loads of people do it. Even on Advances booked that way where due to the 3tph from Manchester it's very often cheaper.

 

[blakey1152]

Thank you so much

 

[AlterEgo]

The forum is right and Avanti are wrong as per usual. Ignore them. It’s a permitted route.

 

[island]

No Avanti train manager would bat an eyelid at the ticket being used that way.

 

[randyrippley]

Incident: Lancaster | National Rail

Lines reopened: Disruption between Lancaster and Carlisle expected until 22:30. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck for journeys from Oxenholme Lake District to Preston - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

Route(s) affected​

Avanti West Coast between London Euston and Glasgow Central / Edinburgh

Northern between Manchester Airport and Windermere

TransPennine Express between Manchester Airport / Preston and Glasgow Central / Edinburgh

Description​

Lines have now reopened between Lancaster and Carlisle as the emergency services are now safely clear of the line. Trains may continue to be delayed by up to 100 minutes or cancelled until 17:30.

Avanti West Coast Customer Advice:

Rail replacement coaches are in operation from Oxenholme Lake District in both directions until further notice.

Tickets will also be accepted on the following:

• LNER between London Kings Cross and Leeds / Edinburgh
• London Northwestern Railway and West Midlands Railway via any reasonable route
• Northern between Carlisle and Newcastle and also between Leeds and Preston
• ScotRail between Glasgow Queen Street and Edinburgh
• TransPennine Express between Edinburgh and Preston

Northern Customer Advice:

To assist customers to complete their journey, road transport is running between Oxenholme and Windermere in both directions.

Journey times will be extended by approximately 30 minutes whilst travelling on rail replacement coaches.

Customers at Preston can travel to Lancaster on TransPennine Express services.

TransPennine Express Customer Advice:

You can use your ticket on the following:

• Avanti West Coast between Preston and Glasgow Central / Edinburgh
• LNER services between York and Edinburgh / Newcastle
• Northern services between Carlisle and Newcastle
• ScotRail between Glasgow Central / Glasgow Queen Street and Edinburgh
• TransPennine Express between Manchester and Edinburgh / Newcastle / York

Rail replacement transport has been requested to run between Preston / Edinburgh and Carlisle, however this will be very limited.

 

[AndrewE]

Incident: Lancaster | National Rail

Lines reopened: Disruption between Lancaster and Carlisle expected until 22:30. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck for journeys from Oxenholme Lake District to Preston - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

Avanti West Coast JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

What is conspicuously absent from that advice is that passengers are fully entitled to travel from Preston via Manchester to the south (via Crewe/Stoke or Stafford for London or Brum.)
I was caught up in this (haven't found another thread yet) and was quite impressed how the 0807 Brum to Edinburgh was held in the platform (doors open) at Warrington BQ with announcement that there had been a fatality at Oxenholme and it would be there for some considerable time, on the other platform southbound people were told to get the class 9 to Crewe and change there for London as the direct train wasn't coming.
I was a bit puzzled why WCML trains couldn't run as far as Preston or Lancaster and why the Manchester Airport to Barrow services were cancelled too.

 

[Essan]

What is conspicuously absent from that advice is that passengers are fully entitled to travel from Preston via Manchester to the south (via Crewe/Stoke or Stafford for London or Brum.)
I was caught up in this (haven't found another thread yet) and was quite impressed how the 0807 Brum to Edinburgh was held in the platform (doors open) at Warrington BQ with announcement that there had been a fatality at Oxenholme and it would be there for some considerable time, on the other platform southbound people were told to get the class 9 to Crewe and change there for London as the direct train wasn't coming.
I was a bit puzzled why WCML trains couldn't run as far as Preston or Lancaster and why the Manchester Airport to Barrow services were cancelled too.

I was surprised there wasn't a specific thread about this incident too. I was caught up in it at the other end, waiting to travel south from Glasgow and ended up being put on a taxi to Preston! Ironically, by the time we got to Preston trains were running again (albeit with some delays/cancellations).
I think the reason you were kept at Warrington was simply because there would likely have been an earlier service already, likewise, being held at Preston - so nowhere for your train to go? Other cancellations were presumably again due to the lack of routing available and/or trains being held in the woring places?

Back to the OP's question - I don't know about travel to Euston, but certainly when I was booking my tickets, and looking at the option of travelling on a Sunday when there was engineering work in the Stafford area (I think?) the journey planners were showing a route from Birmingham to Preston via Manchester.

As an aside, I was rather annoyed to discover I eventually got to Evesham 1 hour 57 minutes late ..... Be interesting to see what delay-repay I get from Avanti for the journey (further complicated by being on split tickets involving a mix of advance singles and open returns.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I was a bit puzzled why WCML trains couldn't run as far as Preston or Lancaster and why the Manchester Airport to Barrow services were cancelled too.

So, what was the reason(s) for that? The unfortunate incident at Oxenholme was just after 9 a.m., I believe, but the disruption in the Preston area was very much still ongoing some eight hours later.

 

[AndrewE]

So, what was the reason(s) for that? The unfortunate incident at Oxenholme was just after 9 a.m., I believe, but the disruption in the Preston area was very much still ongoing some eight hours later.

[Manchester to Barrow services] I wondered whether the TPE crew interwork with the Airport-to-Scotland services and TPE just threw in the towel.

I suspect that something else was held in Wigan (but can't see it on RTT) but I did think that Preston has so many platforms plus extra stabling that trains could have turned round there, or even Lancaster. That way trips to Blackpool, (maybe Barrow and Leeds) would have still been possible as the Liverpool-Blackpools seem not to have been affected.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

[Manchester to Barrow services] I wondered whether the TPE crew interwork with the Airport-to-Scotland services and TPE just threw in the towel.

Manchester to Barrow-in-Furness is operated these days just by Northern isn't it?

 

[AMD]

So, what was the reason(s) for that? The unfortunate incident at Oxenholme was just after 9 a.m., I believe, but the disruption in the Preston area was very much still ongoing some eight hours later.

The main reason was substantial displacement of traincrew - the line was shut for over four hours which caused a bit of a headache for those in control.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The main reason was substantial displacement of traincrew - the line was shut for over four hours which caused a bit of a headache for those in control.

Thanks for the explanation. Was only delayed for half an hour or so at Preston yesterday, and I'm disinclined to claim for 'Delay Repay' in view of the circumstances.

 

[Trackman]

We don't have any acceptance via the route at present Chris. If you did want to travel that way, you'd need to grab a new ticket. - Miles

You know what, Miles is the worst out of the twitter bunch I think... Miles did VT twitter too.

 

[Class800]

You know what, Miles is the worst out of the twitter bunch I think... Miles did VT twitter too.

He's Miles worse than anyone else. Can't believe I got in first with this one

 

[Trackman]

He's Miles worse than anyone else. Can't believe I got in first with this one

lol and all that : - )

 

[AndrewE]

You know what, Miles is the worst out of the twitter bunch I think... Miles did VT twitter too.

so... is there any way of reporting this clown's incorrect offerings to his management and getting him (re?) trained?

Given that all rail company booking clerks are required by law to offer customers the cheapest tickets, what is the legality of AWC's official public face saying someone must buy another ticket to travel on a perfectly valid route?
Worth a formal complaint to the "Regulator?"

 

[Class800]

so... is there any way of reporting this clown's incorrect offerings to his management and getting him (re?) trained?

Given that all rail company booking clerks are required by law to offer customers the cheapest tickets, what is the legality of AWC's official public face saying someone must buy another ticket to travel on a perfectly valid route?
Worth a formal complaint to the "Regulator?"

Very little we can do except provide correct advice here

 

[island]

Given that all rail company booking clerks are required by law to offer customers the cheapest tickets, what is the legality of AWC's official public face saying someone must buy another ticket to travel on a perfectly valid route?
Worth a formal complaint to the "Regulator?"

I do not believe any law says that; I believe it's a contract between the TOCs and the government (or a government proxy such as the RDG/ORR/whatever other alphabet soup organisation they set up this week), which cannot be enforced by travellers as they're not a party to it.

I strongly suspect any such "formal complaint" would yield at most a form letter.

 

[Haywain]

Given that all rail company booking clerks are required by law to offer customers the cheapest tickets, what is the legality of AWC's official public face saying someone must buy another ticket to travel on a perfectly valid route?

There is no relationship between the two matters, and the former is not a matter of law.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is no relationship between the two matters, and the former is not a matter of law.

This is quite possibly one of the most misunderstood parts of consumer law. Lots of people think that if a vendor is breaking the law that entitles them to redress - it usually doesn't.

 

[AndrewE]

I thought that when BR was broken up the franchises were legally obliged to offer the cheapest fares available to stop them only giving people their own less-good value tickets.
I accept that this is a bit different, but staff competence in the ticketing rules is needed and they shouldn't be allowed to tell people to buy another ticket when they already hold one which is perfectly valid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought that when BR was broken up the franchises were legally obliged to offer the cheapest fares available to stop them only giving people their own less-good value tickets.

They are, other than (curiously) at TVMs.

However, if they don't it doesn't give the passenger any specific rights to redress. It's just the TOC that has breached the TSA and can be penalised.