Prosecution after over travelling beyond destination shown on ticket

[JAG1936]

Hi

I recently was stopped by a ticket inspector for having an invalid ticket for my journey.

This was a genuine mistake as I was planning to get off at the stop that I had a ticket for as I was due to get a lift but after leaving my station I received a text message to say that lift wasn’t forthcoming anymore.

I tried to purchase a ticket via the Trainline app but it would only allow me to purchase for pickup at station which obviously wasn’t an option now I was on the train.

I’ve now received a letter threatening me with a court case.

Please can someone help!!

 

[jfollows]

I've asked for this to be moved to the Disputes & Prosecutions section of the forum.

It's likely you'll be able to agree an out of court settlement if you engage with the people threatening a court case, but in order to give you the best advice we can will you please provide more details - when, where - and a suitably redacted copy of the letter you've received would also be helpful. Likeley but not guaranteed, in part depending on the circumstances and who it is you're dealing with.

 

[JAG1936]

Thanks

This is the letter.

Second part

 

[jfollows]

I am less experienced than other contributors to this forum, so you should wait for other input which will either confirm my input or advise differently, but in essence you should consider replying to GTR along the lines of advice in another post ( #3 ):

GTR are normally one of the more pragmatic train companies when it comes to settling out of court as long as you engage with the process. I suggest you cover the following points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. I wouldn't mention things like not being in the public interest to prosectute either.
GTR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and they could decide to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they want to.

We would advise that you post up your proposed response here and we can offer advice on its wording if you do.
The settlement is likely to be ~£100 + the fare, but will not result in a criminal record.

 

[Haywain]

Where were you travelling from and to, and which station did you have a ticket to?

 

[JAG1936]

Where were you travelling from and to, and which station did you have a ticket to?

From Letchworth to Hitchin.

Thanks

Was going to post something along the lines of this:

I purchased a valid ticket for my originally planned journey. After leaving the station I received a notification that the lift I was getting from Hitchin had been cancelled. As I was unable to purchase a ticket on my phone without collecting from a station I incorrectly continued my journey towards London on the train.

I apologise for this error in judgement and would request that I pay the outstanding fare plus any additional costs.

I am less experienced than other contributors to this forum, so you should wait for other input which will either confirm my input or advise differently, but in essence you should consider replying to GTR along the lines of advice in another post ( #3 ):

We would advise that you post up your proposed response here and we can offer advice on its wording if you do.
The settlement is likely to be ~£100 + the fare, but will not result in a criminal record.

Thanks

Was going to post something along the lines of this:

I purchased a valid ticket for my originally planned journey. After leaving the station I received a notification that the lift I was getting from Hitchin had been cancelled. As I was unable to purchase a ticket on my phone without collecting from a station I incorrectly continued my journey towards London on the train.

I apologise for this error in judgement and would request that I pay the outstanding fare plus any additional costs.

 

[Huntergreed]

Hi

I recently was stopped by a ticket inspector for having an invalid ticket for my journey.

This was a genuine mistake as I was planning to get off at the stop that I had a ticket for as I was due to get a lift but after leaving my station I received a text message to say that lift wasn’t forthcoming anymore.

I tried to purchase a ticket via the Trainline app but it would only allow me to purchase for pickup at station which obviously wasn’t an option now I was on the train.

I’ve now received a letter threatening me with a court case.

Please can someone help!!

Welcome to the forum.

Did you actually purchase the ticket you intended to beyond your destination?

Thankfully, GTR (Govia Thameslink Railway) are one of the more pragmatic companies so it is very likely that an out of court settlement can be agreed upon provided you have not come to their attention previously for something like this.

In line with the advice posted in post #4, it is imperative that you should respond to the letter in a constructive manner. Apologise for travelling without a valid ticket, state what you have learned/that you will not do this again, and offer to pay the unpaid fare and GTR’s administrative costs in dealing with this matter. This will maximise the likelihood of being offered a settlement.

 

[JAG1936]

Welcome to the forum.

Did you actually purchase the ticket you intended to beyond your destination?

Thankfully, GTR (Govia Thameslink Railway) are one of the more pragmatic companies so it is very likely that an out of court settlement can be agreed upon provided you have not come to their attention previously for something like this.

In line with the advice posted in post #4, it is imperative that you should respond to the letter in a constructive manner. Apologise for travelling without a valid ticket, state what you have learned/that you will not do this again, and offer to pay the unpaid fare and GTR’s administrative costs in dealing with this matter. This will maximise the likelihood of being offered a settlement.

I offered to pay for the ticket but the inspector wouldn’t allow me to.

If you could advise of best reply to maximise my chances of keeping this out of court I’d appreciate that.

 

[Huntergreed]

I offered to pay for the ticket but the inspector wouldn’t allow me to.

If you could advise of best reply to maximise my chances of keeping this out of court I’d appreciate that.

I can’t write the reply for you, but the general guidance that we issue is:

You should the following points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before.

This has been successful often in the past at achieving out of court settlements.

If you stick to this and upload a draft on here before you send it off, we will happily offer advice/amendments.

 

[JAG1936]

Would this be an ok reply:
I purchased a valid ticket for my originally planned journey. After leaving the station I received a notification that the lift I was getting from Hitchin had been cancelled. As I was unable to purchase a ticket on my phone without collecting from a station I incorrectly continued my journey towards London on the train.

I apologise for this error in judgement and would request that I pay the outstanding fare plus any additional costs.

 

[jfollows]

Would this be an ok reply:
I purchased a valid ticket for my originally planned journey. After leaving the station I received a notification that the lift I was getting from Hitchin had been cancelled. As I was unable to purchase a ticket on my phone without collecting from a station I incorrectly continued my journey towards London on the train.

I apologise for this error in judgement and would request that I pay the outstanding fare plus any additional costs.

No.
It’s too short, lacks structure and detail, and does not incorporate the points advised in earlier posts.

 

[JAG1936]

Ok, how about this…

Dear Sirs

On the date in question my intended journey was to travel from Letchworth to Hitchin. I purchased this ticket accordingly. After leaving Letchworth station I received a message to say my onward car lift from Hitchin had been cancelled.

I panicked and incorrectly made a decision to carry on my journey towards London. I attempted to purchase a ticket covering my journey from Hitchin to London via the Trainline app but it wouldn’t allow me to purchase in without collecting it from the station. By this time the train had already left Stevenage so the next stop was Finsbury Park.

I realise this was wrong and I apologise for this. I’m very keen to keep this out of court and I would like to request that I pay the additional fee, plus any other costs.

I’ve learnt from this mistake and should this occur again in the future I will ensure that I leave the train at the correct station and ensure that I purchase the amended ticket before re boarding the next available train.

 

[jfollows]

Ok, how about this…

Dear Sirs

On the date in question my intended journey was to travel from Letchworth to Hitchin. I purchased this ticket accordingly. After leaving Letchworth station I received a message to say my onward car lift from Hitchin had been cancelled.

I panicked and incorrectly made a decision to carry on my journey towards London. I attempted to purchase a ticket covering my journey from Hitchin to London via the Trainline app but it wouldn’t allow me to purchase in without collecting it from the station. By this time the train had already left Stevenage so the next stop was Finsbury Park.

I realise this was wrong and I apologise for this. I’m very keen to keep this out of court and I would like to request that I pay the additional fee, plus any other costs.

I’ve learnt from this mistake and should this occur again in the future I will ensure that I leave the train at the correct station and ensure that I purchase the amended ticket before re boarding the next available train.

Yes, that’s much better, more likely to achieve your objective. Wait for confirmation from others just to be sure! Good luck!

 

[spyinthesky]

Would this be an ok reply:
I purchased a valid ticket for my originally planned journey. After leaving the station I received a notification that the lift I was getting from Hitchin had been cancelled. As I was unable to purchase a ticket on my phone without collecting from a station I incorrectly continued my journey towards London on the train.

I apologise for this error in judgement and would request that I pay the outstanding fare plus any additional costs.

Deleted as now irrelevant.

 

[JAG1936]

Having exited the station at Hitchin, if you attempted to buy a ticket on your phone, could you not have collected it at Hitchin?
It seems that you completed your journey that you paid for and left the station, this part is now irrelevant to your response.
Did you board the same train you got off or was it a later one? Not that this matters as your response should be as the General advice given.
Essentially you boarded a train without a valid ticket and this is the part you need to excuse yourself for.

I didn’t leave the train at Hitchin. That’s the issue. I was trying to buy a ticket on the train and by the time I worked out it wasn’t possible it was too late.

 

[spyinthesky]

I didn’t leave the train at Hitchin. That’s the issue. I was trying to buy a ticket on the train and by the time I worked out it wasn’t possible it was too late.

Understood, your response seems ok, maybe add that you have learned from your mistake.

 

[JAG1936]

Thank you everyone!

Fingers crossed for a positive outcome

 

[Titfield]

From the information given by the OP this does not make a great deal of sense. You were travelling from Letchworth to Hitchin (a distance of less than 5 miles) by rail and then by car from Hitchin to Undisclosed.
Whilst on the train between Letchworth and Hitchin you were informed by text that the lift wasnt "forthcoming". You decided not to get off the train at Hitchin and make / use alternative arrangements but instead decided to stay on the train. You tried to purchase an additional ticket on the train but for technical reasons this could not be done. You could have got off the train at Stevenage (the next stop) but decided not to. You got off at Finsbury Park where you were stopped by the ticket inspector.

The issue I see is that rather than exiting the train at Hitchin you did so at Finsbury Park travelling an extra distance of some 36 miles. This is a considerable distance of overriding compared to the ticket purchased. GTR may need some convincing that this was a result of a combination of unforeseen circumstances (the cancelled lift) and panic induced poor decision making (staying on the train) rather than a deliberate short fare.

 

[JAG1936]

From the information given by the OP this does not make a great deal of sense. You were travelling from Letchworth to Hitchin (a distance of less than 5 miles) by rail and then by car from Hitchin to Undisclosed.
Whilst on the train between Letchworth and Hitchin you were informed by text that the lift wasnt "forthcoming". You decided not to get off the train at Hitchin and make / use alternative arrangements but instead decided to stay on the train. You tried to purchase an additional ticket on the train but for technical reasons this could not be done. You could have got off the train at Stevenage (the next stop) but decided not to. You got off at Finsbury Park where you were stopped by the ticket inspector.

The issue I see is that rather than exiting the train at Hitchin you did so at Finsbury Park travelling an extra distance of some 36 miles. This is a considerable distance of overriding compared to the ticket purchased. GTR may need some convincing that this was a result of a combination of unforeseen circumstances (the cancelled lift) and panic induced poor decision making (staying on the train) rather than a deliberate short fare.

I understand what you’re saying and in hindsight I should’ve got off the train. Issue is after Stevenage the next stop was Finsbury Park.

Should I amended my reply to GTR?

 

[Titfield]

I understand what you’re saying and in hindsight I should’ve got off the train. Issue is after Stevenage the next stop was Finsbury Park.

Should I amended my reply to GTR?

I do not think you should amend your reply as I fear it may raise more questions than it answers. The general advice forum members give in matter such as this is not to give additional information which may incriminate you further. However hopefully a few other forum members will take a look at this and advise their view on whether to amend or not.

The problem I see - and please correct me if I am wrong - but I suspect your intended destination was somewhere in London, if it had been elsewhere you would have got off at Stevenage.

 

[jfollows]

Should I amended my reply to GTR?

It reads fine to me, I think that additional explanation is unnecessary and potentially confuses things.

 

[JAG1936]

It reads fine to me, I think that additional explanation is unnecessary and potentially confuses things.

Thank you

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm afraid your story doesn't really stack up to me. Your journey was from Letchworth to Hitchin but the letter tells us you were stopped at Finsbury Park.... I'm wondering of you were actually planning to travel to London and purchased a ticket from Letchworth to Hitchin to access the train at Letchworth, and then use the validators at Finsbury Park to start an underground journey using contactless?

That said, the good news is you are being dealt with by Govia Thameslink Railway who are generally pragmatic at dealing with this sort of thing. Someone has already linked to the advice I normally give about the things to mention in your reply so I won't repeat them again.

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. GTR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and they are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around £150 the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[island]

The story about the lift that never materialized doesn’t pass the smell test so I’d suggest dropping it and keeping things simple.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The story about the lift that never materialized doesn’t pass the smell test so I’d suggest dropping it and keeping things simple.

I think that’s a key point here. The person investigating is likely to believe that you are not being honest in your explanation, (they’ve heard it all before - indeed this particular explanation has come up on the forum before). If they believe you are still not being open and honest with them then it may change their view as to how they approach the case, and not in a way that would be in your favour.

 

[AlterEgo]

Some unhelpful posts here just buying the OP's story straight. This is classic short faring; nobody is going to believe you were getting a train 5 minutes to then get a lift all the way to London.

I recommend simply admitting what you were up to and I do hope you've not bought many Letchworth to Hitchin tickets online before, because they will find out and they weren't born yesterday.

 

[fandroid]

I don't think that we should pass judgement here. The only actual evidence we have is the OP's word.

What we can do is to point out that, to the train company, the OP's actions look very much like classic doughnutting, and any approach to them for leniency should strongly bear that in mind. If the OP has any other evidence that supports their version then they should seek it out and present it to the train company.

 

[SussexMan]

I don't think that we should pass judgement here. The only actual evidence we have is the OP's word.

And to be fair to the OP, I could see situations where you have a work colleague who drives in and you take a short journey to get to them. Unfortunate for the OP if that is the situation, as it gives them an additional hurdle in some ways.

 

[Krokodil]

And to be fair to the OP, I could see situations where you have a work colleague who drives in and you take a short journey to get to them. Unfortunate for the OP if that is the situation, as it gives them an additional hurdle in some ways.

There are situations where the "change of plans re: lift" are plausible. Unfortunately for the OP, those cases where the ticket is just from a barriered station to the next station along the line - and the point where the person was checked quite some distance beyond - will attract the most suspicion.

It may help the OP in mitigation if they have evidence of the change of plans.

 

[AlterEgo]

And to be fair to the OP, I could see situations where you have a work colleague who drives in and you take a short journey to get to them. Unfortunate for the OP if that is the situation, as it gives them an additional hurdle in some ways.

Nobody who deals with these cases is going to believe that someone who lives in Letchworth takes a train to Hitchin to then get a lift all the way to London. Swiss cheese model of unlikely events:

- only holds the shortest possible ticket it is possible to have southbound from Letchworth
- is getting a lift from there to London
- has the lift cancelled, but with extreme misfortune, only in the 3 and a half minute window where they are between Letchworth and Hitchin
- stays on the train anyway without a ticket
- alights at a station where they can continue seamlessly on PAYG

Without some serious evidence to corroborate that any revenue staff worth their salt will just see that as untrue.