Help - what does ‘woke’ mean.

[yorkie]

I agree with you, and I would feel slightly insulted too but I'd have already judged the person who'd used it anyway so I wouldn't feel too bad.

What I meant was, how come it has become an insult when calling it somebody literally means that the accuser is not alert to injustice and by using it an insult implies they wear that as a badge of honour. It's like the unintentionally ironic use of 'snowflake' by people who are the ones getting wound up by people who won't accept use of something that was previously acceptable, therefore themselves are 'snowflakes'.

Calling somebody woke says much more about the person saying it than it does the person it's being aimed at.

Perhaps because people who described themselves by using this term were extremists (or at least, viewed that way)?

Remember this term originated in the USA where there is so much polarisation on political matters, it's unreal.

I'm not a fan of Americanisms coming into the English language.

The term woke tends to be used to describe someone who goes 'over the top', or perhaps to 'over compensate' an injustice, etc. It's not used as a term to refer to an ordinary person who acts in a rational manner.

 

[MikeWM]

I'd say that 'woke' is a great example of something that started off well-intentioned but is now symptomatic of a mindset that has gone too far - a pendulum that was unbalanced one way, that is now massively over-compensating by swinging too far the other way, where the right place to be is in the middle.

I want to see a 'Martin Luther King Jr' society - where not only do we not *judge* people based on their characteristics, but we don't even think about them. I believe we were making rather good progress towards that - clearly there was more to do, but we were getting there.

But 'woke', as it has now become, is in many respects a large step backwards, because it tries to *require* us once again to be continually considering characteristics of other people - skin colour, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. etc., accompanied by a whole host of unhelpful - and discriminatory! - terms such as 'unconscious bias', 'microaggression', 'white privilege', 'toxic masculinity', etc. etc.

Let's get back to wanting equality for everyone, plain and simple.

 

[PsychoMouse]

Perhaps because people who described themselves by using this term were extremists (or at least, viewed that way)?

Remember this term originated in the USA where there is so much polarisation on political matters, it's unreal.

I'm not a fan of Americanisms coming into the English language.

The term woke tends to be used to describe someone who goes 'over the top', or perhaps to 'over compensate' an injustice, etc. It's not used as a term to refer to an ordinary person who acts in a rational manner.

All of this is true, however it doesn't help when you see people describing reasonable things like women referees, the sacking of an outwardly misinformation spreading anti-vax MP, and the expansion of more compassionate language as 'woke'... It kinda loses it's meaning.

 

[yorkie]

Other than online, it's quite rare rare that I hear the term used in the UK.

All of this is true, however it doesn't help when you see people describing reasonable things like women referees, the sacking of an outwardly misinformation spreading anti-vax MP, and the expansion of more compassionate language as 'woke'... It kinda loses it's meaning..

I don't know the MP story and this is probably not the best thread for it, but anyone who complains about women referees* needs their head examining.

(* I assume you refer to football; I am an FA qualified coach and am very fortunate to be paid to do that in one of my jobs; I do my best to encourage more girls to play the sport and I can get angry when I hear people saying things that go against that!)

But again you demonstrate how the term has indeed no real meaning. It's a term best avoided; if someone uses the term you wouldn't be able to work out what they really mean, except if it's obvious based on the context and/or tone; otherwise you'd have to ask them to elaborate.

It's a horrible Americanism colloquialism we are much better off without, in my opinion.

 

[birchesgreen]

"Woke" is a horrible term. To me it seemed to emerge at the same time as "virtue signalling" and "snowflake", and it appears to be a word that is used by those who hold slightly bigoted tendencies use to beat those who are rather more enlightened in the ways of the modern world. In short, it seems to have become a derogatory term for "open-minded".

Its a modern version of deriding people as being "do-gooders"

 

[brad465]

I'd say whoever weaponised this word to the extent is now used is one of, if not the most successful division stoker in recent history.

 

[Parjon]

I'd say whoever weaponised this word to the extent is now used is one of, if not the most successful division stoker in recent history.

And determining the funding source for whatever obscure organisation first coined and promoted the term may be revealing, in that regard.

Certainly in the UK, the concept of social justice and everyone having the right to a fair go regardless of background isn't contested by the vast majority and isn't contentious (even if we don't yet acheive it in practise).

And yet here we are arguing as if it is contentious, thanks to polarising effects. Someone has done a number on us, and also regarding other topics. And I bet it's paid for in Roubles or Yuan.

 

[yorkie]

And determining the funding source for whatever obscure organisation first coined and promoted the term may be revealing, in that regard.

Certainly in the UK, the concept of social justice and everyone having the right to a fair go regardless of background isn't contested by the vast majority and isn't contentious (even if we don't yet acheive it in practise).

I completely agree.

And yet here we are arguing as if it is contentious, thanks to polarising effects. Someone has done a number on us, and also regarding other topics. And I bet it's paid for in Roubles or Yuan.

I don't think we are debating if those rights are contentious at all! We are merely debating the meaning of an American slang colloquialism

 

[Parjon]

No, and really that's what I mean. The imposition of the term, and the aggressive stances of those who polarise or seek to polarise around those terms is the sole source of any argument.

 

[yorkie]

Yep, agreed!