Helsby to Ellesmere Port

[frodshamfella]

Travelled on this line yesterday, I go on it from time to time as it is quite local to me and a curious service. Got on 1545 at Helsby, and amazed as 3 passengers got off the arriving service from Ellesmere Port. I got on and decided to travel as far as Stanlow and Thornton and cross foot bridge to catch the last train back. A bigger surprise as I got off, another passenger boarded the Ellesmere Port Train !

Waited for return service, went onwards to Frodsham, and again not just me, another passenger was on board an alighted at Frodsham with me.

Not a packed train trip by any stretch, but im used to being the only passenger, so nice to see a few others on board .

 

[vjm1975]

I picked a friend up off the 15:45 Helsby-Ellesmere Port service back last August. Expecting him to be the only passenger to get off, was rather surprised to see another 10 passengers alight. Also 3 people were getting on for the return journey.

The earlier journey from Helsby tends to be empty, or just one or two passengers, from the occasions I have used it or seen it arrive at Ellesmere Port. Not sure how well used the early morning ones are. It is a convenient service to use for connections at Helsby/Warrington for travelling too and from Manchester and saves a hell of a lot of time. Assuming you time it well of course

 

[frodshamfella]

Have discussed this route before, given there is quite a bit of housing at Ince and Elton, there is potential for more passengers to use the route, should a better service be available. Im afraid ive never got up early enough vjm1975 to see loadings on the morning serices .

Carl
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
By the way While I was waiting at Stanlow, a long freight train came thundering through towards E Port.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

We went on that line as part of the Cheshire Day ranger meet back in February and I think the group of railuk-ers was the most that's been on the line in one go! Other times I have been on it, I have either had the train to myself or shared it with one or two other people.

I think the line holds some sort of potential for those going to Manchester and beyond from the Ellesmere port area and from the lower parts of the Wirral. Rather than having to go to Hooton then Chester, you could get directly onto the Manchester line from Ellesmere port. It would need some promoting though and possibly some more stock.

 

[317666]

When I went on this line last August, the train was surprisingly full! Quite a lot of holidaymakers with suitcases on board.

 

[gnolife]

I'm going to be trying this line out on Monday, on the 0653 from Ellesmere. That's of course assuming that I can make it out of bed in time. The afternoon trains are no good for me as I need to be in Chester between 1345 and 1745.

 

[frodshamfella]

do let us know "gnolife" what the early morning service is like.

Thanks

Carl

 

[Green Lane]

Did the early morning service a couple of years back from Ellesmere Port to Helsby. (The trip report is probably buried on these forums somewhere). Had to leave the house at some pretty early time - it was something past five in the morning, well before six anyway.

It was on a Saturday and I was the only passenger, Although IIRC someone did get off the incoming service at Ellesmere Port.

Like most users of the line, I've done far more trips on the afternoon services than the morning ones. Last time there were about eight people on it in the afternoon.

I've been exploring the area around Helsby Hill (for hiking and photography).

Generally, I've been getting a return from Birkenhead to Helsby. (or from Spital where my annual "season ticket" runs out - although I think it's in fact the same price now)

Typically an off-peak ticket - going there via Chester in the morning and back via Ellesmere Port in the afternoon.

I actually started to find the service quite handy.

Also quite good as I can choose to visit Chester on the same ticket and it's not much more expensive than a Merseyrail daysaver - about 50p more is all. I usually find some excuse to do the line again.

Oh yes, I also had an enjoyable day when I visited Frodsham - nice place!

 

[frodshamfella]

Glad you like Frodsham, it is a nice small town. The railway station has quite recently been renovated, its not being put back into passenger use, but the "for sale" sign has gone, rumours are a tea room maybe.

I shall take more trips on the Helsby-E.Port line this year (afternoons), I always enjoy the run, although sometimes, I get off at one of the intermediate stops just for a change !

This year is 150 years of rail between Hooton and Helsby, there are plans of a special train on Saturday 6 July running from Hooton via Ellesmere Port and Helsby to Liverpool South Parkway over Halton Curve. North Cheshire Rail Users Group are planning this.

 

[gnolife]

Good morning all

I'm just going to point out that I did make it out of bed in time for that train from MIA, so am now at Little Sutton, on the way to Ellesmere Port. I'm doing periodic updates on the day, which can be found in the trip reports and nostalgia section of the forums.

 

[inner-city]

It is a long term aspiration have the Ellesmere Port to Helsby line on Merseyrail

 

[merlodlliw]

It is a long term aspiration have the Ellesmere Port to Helsby line on Merseyrail

The chance went years ago when the third rail stopped at Ellesmere Port due to Shells objection,which was upheld. This was at the same time as Chester going electric,money on the table then to go third rail to Helsby

I don't see Merseyrail having any interest in running a diesel,the third rail is now dead in the water.


Bob

 

[Holly]

It is a long term aspiration have the Ellesmere Port to Helsby line on Merseyrail

There was a proposal a few months back to separate the dual track into two single tracks (like Altrincham). One track for freight trains and specials, the other track for a captive light rail (like Stourbridge).
Not sure who would fund.

Question - is this route sometimes used for engineering diversions?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

About 1984, Chester - Mouldsworth was closed for engineering work one Sunday, so the first train of the day ran

Chester - Hooton (rev) - Ince & Elton (NS) - Mouldsworth - Delamere etc

Surprisingly there were not many gricers aborad.

Subsequent workings shuttled between Mouldsworth and Manchester with bus connections to/from chester.

The Ince & Elton - Mouldsworth line closed a few years later after the signal box at the Ince & Elton end burned down.

 

[inner-city]

There was a proposal a few months back to separate the dual track into two single tracks (like Altrincham). One track for freight trains and specials, the other track for a captive light rail (like Stourbridge).
Not sure who would fund.

Question - is this route sometimes used for engineering diversions?

Isn't dual track and two single trancks the same?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The chance went years ago when the third rail stopped at Ellesmere Port due to Shells objection,which was upheld. This was at the same time as Chester going electric,money on the table then to go third rail to Helsby

I don't see Merseyrail having any interest in running a diesel,the third rail is now dead in the water.


Bob

Why did Shell object? Electrifying the line is not a big thing.

 

[oddiesjack]

Why did Shell object? Electrifying the line is not a big thing.

I presume that they take a dim view of sparks in the middle of a refinery!

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I presume that they take a dim view of sparks in the middle of a refinery!

As I understand things they objected because of a gas plant located close to the line. This gas plant has long been closed. Kettles travel through the refinery occasionally.

 

[telstarbox]

Isn't dual track and two single tracks the same?

Not quite. The tracks would stay on the same alignment but under the proposal, both tracks would be used in both directions i.e.

<=====================> This line used by captive light rail
<=====================> This line used by freight and specials

 

[inner-city]

Not quite. The tracks would stay on the same alignment but under the proposal, both tracks would be used in both directions i.e.

<=====================> This line used by captive light rail
<=====================> This line used by freight and specials

Where are the links?

 

[telstarbox]

No it's supposed to represent two tracks! Similar to the Navigation Road - Altrincham section.

 

[inner-city]

No it's supposed to represent two tracks! Similar to the Navigation Road - Altrincham section.

ah!

 

[eps200]

Merseyrails next stock is going to be dual pick-up so hopefully this section can be electrified alongside some other project in the area.

 

[inner-city]

Merseyrails next stock is going to be dual pick-up so hopefully this section can be electrified alongside some other project in the area.

Where do you get the info that all the rolling stock will be dual-pickup? I was under the impression it would be mixed with some light-rail to access Wirral and Liverpool Waters.

There has always been a desire to get Wrexham Trains (run by Arriva Wales) into the central Liverpool underground section. But a dual-fuel electric/diesel with tanks of diesel in a tunnel precluded that. I see no problem if the fuel tanks are made to nuclear fuel container specifications - crash proof. Having a number of trains made to this specification must be far cheaper than electrifying 27 miles of track. A section of electrified track can be at stations to improve acceleration. Much cheaper and using bio-fuel is an eco advantage.

If such trains are within regs and are ever built, then they would extend Merseyrail onto Wigan via Kirby, to Helsby, etc. The Merseyrail Outer Loop could be reinstated with electrifying it - far cheaper.

 

[edwin_m]

Even if the tanks are crash-proof there is still the fuel piping and the engine itself to create a risk of leakage and fire.

 

[pablo]

Duel? Dual?

 

[frodshamfella]

If electrifing the line from Ellesmere Port to Helsby is not a big prob, that would increase opportunities (im no expert, but thought there was a "sparks" issue ). Having said that dont stop at Helsby take it onwards to Frodsham, over Halton Curve add new station at Beechwood, then Runcorn and onwards to Liverpool South Parkway.

 

[krus_aragon]

Duel? Dual?

Duel tracks, eh? Maybe that's a specialised form of gauntlet track... :P

 

[edwin_m]

There's only one way to settle this...

 

[pablo]

Choose your second .... track.

 

[Holly]

... There has always been a desire to get Wrexham Trains (run by Arriva Wales) into the central Liverpool underground section. But a dual-fuel electric/diesel with tanks of diesel in a tunnel precluded that. I see no problem if the fuel tanks are made to nuclear fuel container specifications - crash proof. Having a number of trains made to this specification must be far cheaper than electrifying 27 miles of track. A section of electrified track can be at stations to improve acceleration. Much cheaper and using bio-fuel is an eco advantage. ...

The Mersey tunnel was designed and built for coal fired steam trains. There is no engineering reason why modern design coal fueled locomotives could not safely be used. Not on the loop line perhaps, but they could turn back at James Street.
The earliest diesel engines used coal fuel, not oil.