Heritage railway financial problems.

[Wynd]

Someone up thread mentioned Companies House filings. NYMR-E are a £5m a year turnover business, which was surprising in itself, but not quite as surprising as the below, namely director remuneration. The Trust is a different matter.

 

[John Luxton]

You can't have a railway without moaning! And I think the financials bear out the success at maximising revenue by running part-route only on certain days.

But it isn't a proper railway is it? Just a theme park ride in particular when it it strategically placed to link the two sections of the main network. Something once made much of and now seemingly abandoned.

 

[railfan99]

Someone up thread mentioned Companies House filings. NYMR-E are a £5m a year turnover business, which was surprising in itself, but not quite as surprising as the below, namely director remuneration. The Trust is a different matter.

View attachment 133271

Why are they paid at all? A great way to run at a loss!

Not the tradition of railway preservation operations worldwide.

 

[stuu]

I agree, but do you think NR would want the Minehead branch? Or do some of the bus drivers on that route belong to the RMT and want their jobs preserved - remember the NUR stopping the WSR from running into Taunton for that reason in the 70s?

Minehead and West Somerset do suffer from transport problems, the road is terrible, its not even two lanes throughout. The bus takes an hour and a half to go 25 miles. Rail might only be half that. Whether NR would want it is a different matter. As for bus drivers, given there is a national and local shortage I can't see that being an issue now

 

[Titfield]

Why are they paid at all? A great way to run at a loss!

Not the tradition of railway preservation operations worldwide.

Isnt Chris Price both the General Manager and a Director and thus his total emolument is included within the Directors Remuneration listing?

Minehead and West Somerset do suffer from transport problems, the road is terrible, its not even two lanes throughout. The bus takes an hour and a half to go 25 miles. Rail might only be half that. Whether NR would want it is a different matter. As for bus drivers, given there is a national and local shortage I can't see that being an issue now

I dont think it is a NR decision to make but a Great British Railways issue involving discussions with the TOC and Network Rail

 

[Meerkat]

Whilst running Minehead - Watchet probably makes economic sense it would demoralise the volunteer workforce who may then decide to vote with their feet.

Again the volunteer workforce would probably be very much against any form of sharing or giving up what they have sweated blood, toiled and shed tears over.

How many current volunteers reopened the line - it was a while back wasn’t it?
Would it save any money and be easier to staff with part time volunteers if there was a run or two from Taunton into Minehead and then a late afternoon one to take them back again, with shuttles to Watchet in between?

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

It's a pity if the (over)long lines only find out they have become too lengthy because of an economic recession. This leaves the option of reducing fares to the minimum or cutting services from sections which have incurred great expense to restore and maintain. Not good!

 

[30907]

Why are they paid at all? A great way to run at a loss!

Not the tradition of railway preservation operations worldwide.

No, but if you want to operate a 7-days service in a rural area throughout the tourist season, it may be the only option.
The other extreme is the one-weekend-a-month volunteer operation typical of mainland European volunteer operation.

 

[Wynd]

Why are they paid at all? A great way to run at a loss!

Not the tradition of railway preservation operations worldwide.

From an accounting perspective, running at a loss isn't always such a bad thing, particularly if a parent company is loaning you the money.

Secondly, some skills have to be bought, heavy engineering doesn't happen for free, regardless of free labour.

Third, paying a professional team a sum of money, to grow or even maintain the existing revenue, is a defensible move for a venture as large as NYMR. I was just surprised at the number.

 

[Russel]

Oh dear....that's the beginning of the end then! Hopefully those plans will be resisted - or it will become just another 'Anytown, UK'.

It already has a Costa, Greggs and Wetherspoons, I doubt a Starbucks and McDonalds is going to kill Bridgnorth.

If anything, having more places to eat will attract more visitors to the town.

 

[Cymroglan]

It already has a Costa, Greggs and Wetherspoons, I doubt a Starbucks and McDonalds is going to kill Bridgnorth.

If anything, having more places to eat will attract more visitors to the town.

I know this is way off topic, but Bridgnorth Cliff Railway is currently closed and likely to remain so for some time according to a friend who lives there. A quick online search suggests it may not reopen any time soon…

 

[birchesgreen]

I know this is way off topic, but Bridgnorth Cliff Railway is currently closed and likely to remain so for some time according to a friend who lives there. A quick online search suggests it may not reopen any time soon…

Indeed, due to a retaining wall

Closure Pending Repairs to a Retaining Wall on Neighbouring Land - Bridgnorth Cliff Railway

Bridgnorth Cliff Railway was closed at noon on Wednesday 21st December, 2022 until further notice pending the rebuilding of a retaining wall on a neighbouring property. This is a matter beyond our direct control. Cliff railway engineers reported concerns about the deterioration of the retaining...

www.bridgnorthcliffrailway.co.uk

 

[Swimbar]

Someone up thread mentioned Companies House filings. NYMR-E are a £5m a year turnover business, which was surprising in itself, but not quite as surprising as the below, namely director remuneration. The Trust is a different matter.

View attachment 133271

Both Severn Valley and NYMR report a similar turnover in the last accounting year and Similar Wage Bills. The difference is one made a surplus and the other a loss!

 

[172007]

Some activities that heritage railways do really to strike me on the face of it as unnecessary burdens in the current financial climate on top of my previously notes Museam attractions are running trains through the night and also demonstration freights. These must use expensive coal reserves and also result in having to use volunteer time on not very busy trains when it could be used probably more productively elsewhere.

 

[birchesgreen]

Some activities that heritage railways do really to strike me on the face of it as unnecessary burdens in the current financial climate on top of my previously notes Museam attractions are running trains through the night and also demonstration freights. These must use expensive coal reserves and also result in having to use volunteer time on not very busy trains when it could be used probably more productively elsewhere.

Well it all comes down to finding that balance between appeasing the volunteers who are pretty keen on that kind of thing and the beancounters who arn't.

 

[Swimbar]

Well it all comes down to finding that balance between appeasing the volunteers who are pretty keen on that kind of thing and the beancounters who arn't.

Every successful business needs quality beancounters. Some volunteers/enthusiasts seem to forget that a heritage railway is a business and needs to make substantial surpluses to ensure it survives for many years to come.

 

[Alanko]

Every successful business needs quality beancounters. Some volunteers/enthusiasts seem to forget that a heritage railway is a business and needs to make substantial surpluses to ensure it survives for many years to come.

I was reading about a jolly tradition at SVR galas to run steam-hauled trains through the night. By the wee small hours there aren't many people about beyond the crews of the trains and the signalmen. All jolly good fun for those who enjoy a bit of dressing up and reenactment, but presumably totally uneconomical.


I feel that this gentle conflict around heritage railways having to make actual money rather than cater to the whims of volunteers and gricers is a relatively new phenomenon, which is why we see growing pains here and there.

 

[Ken H]

I was reading about a jolly tradition at SVR galas to run steam-hauled trains through the night. By the wee small hours there aren't many people about beyond the crews of the trains and the signalmen. All jolly good fun for those who enjoy a bit of dressing up and reenactment, but presumably totally uneconomical.


I feel that this gentle conflict around heritage railways having to make actual money rather than cater to the whims of volunteers and gricers is a relatively new phenomenon, which is why we see growing pains here and there.

If volunteers want to play trains in the dark, then they need to pay.

 

[birchesgreen]

If volunteers want to play trains in the dark, then they need to pay.

I thought they already were, certainly paying their free time to help run the place.

 

[172007]

I thought they already were, certainly paying their free time to help run the place.

Need to pay the coal, water, electric and diesal too then when having a jolly at midnight or out either either freight Time is volunteered is fine but much like money it is not everything, generally it's a balance of the two for life on general and u feel preserved railways fanatical members (the few) don't see this.

 

[778]

I was reading about a jolly tradition at SVR galas to run steam-hauled trains through the night. By the wee small hours there aren't many people about beyond the crews of the trains and the signalmen. All jolly good fun for those who enjoy a bit of dressing up and reenactment, but presumably totally uneconomical.


I feel that this gentle conflict around heritage railways having to make actual money rather than cater to the whims of volunteers and gricers is a relatively new phenomenon, which is why we see growing pains here and there.

The dressing up and reenactment happened on the Murder Mystery trains which used to run on Friday and Saturday evenings (have not run since covid), not the all night running at the Autumn Galas.

 

[birchesgreen]

Need to pay the coal, water, electric and diesal too then when having a jolly at midnight or out either either freight Time is volunteered is fine but much like money it is not everything, generally it's a balance of the two for life on general and u feel preserved railways fanatical members (the few) don't see this.

What do i feel? Don't quite get what you mean?

I referred to the balance that was needed earlier.

 

[Wynd]

I was reading about a jolly tradition at SVR galas to run steam-hauled trains through the night. By the wee small hours there aren't many people about beyond the crews of the trains and the signalmen. All jolly good fun for those who enjoy a bit of dressing up and reenactment, but presumably totally uneconomical.


I feel that this gentle conflict around heritage railways having to make actual money rather than cater to the whims of volunteers and gricers is a relatively new phenomenon, which is why we see growing pains here and there.

Once a steam loco has run all day, is up to temp etc, how much more coal would be used per hour? There will be a cost, no doubt, but the bulk of the cost must have been taken up in the revenue earning portion of the day?

Either way, the world is becoming ever more competitive. There is more money than ever before, but the competition for it has never been more fierce.

Like all businesses, HR's will have to be ruthless on managing cost if they are to succeed in this competitive world.

Fortunately, almost all of them understand this instinctively, running on wafer thin margins with as much volunteer help as possible.

 

[birchesgreen]

FWIW when the SVR steam gala is spoken about on another forum i read the night running is seen as a key attraction by many.

 

[172007]

What do i feel? Don't quite get what you mean?

I referred to the balance that was needed earlier.

Yes you did, spot on. I was just repeating tbh.

 

[Alanko]

FWIW when the SVR steam gala is spoken about on another forum i read the night running is seen as a key attraction by many.

How many is 'many'? Not families with children, at a guess.

 

[birchesgreen]

How many is 'many'? Not families with children, at a guess.

Well people attending the gala so a different market, which isn't cheap either.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Need to pay the coal, water, electric and diesal too then when having a jolly at midnight or out either either freight Time is volunteered is fine but much like money it is not everything, generally it's a balance of the two for life on general and u feel preserved railways fanatical members (the few) don't see this.

Focusing on the running or not of a token service two nights per year, as a key financial saving on a railway which at it's peak ran thousands of steam round trips per year seems to be rather absurd.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It is absurd. Many organisations do one off things that don’t make them any money because it boosts employee morale and instils loyalty. One of the SVR’s problems is it can’t afford as many employees as it had, hence why it is making redundancies, so unless the roles they filled were completely pointless, in which case they shouldn’t have been employed at all, they are going to need volunteers to fill them. So alienating volunteers for a couple of grand per year would be totally counterproductive. Telling volunteers they are not there to enjoy themselves but their only role is to make the railway money wouldn't be a great recruitment tactic either.

 

[Flying Phil]

Regarding the point made in a couple of posts about running freight trains is being an unnecessary expense. It must be remembered that many Heritage lines are part funded as per charitable objectives. Many such Railway charities have "Education" as a key element. Railways were built to move freight and so running freight trains, at some times during the year, is fundamental to showing that an important charitable objective is being met. Also such freight running attracts more visitors and generates more publicity, often there are associated photographic charters which help to pay those bills.