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Heritage railways with modern signalling/level crossings

Zomboid

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2 Apr 2025
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876
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Oxford
Is it pedantic to suggest that "colour light signals" aren't modern?

They were doing lights on sticks in the 1920s.

They're especially not modern if operated from a mechanical signalbox.

Something like the Ravenglass & Eskdale's Radio train order system is more "modern", though still outdated now.
 
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High Dyke

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Yellabelly Country
Nene Valley Railway. Semaphore signalling, but one Open Crossing type (wig-wags) on the access road to Ferry Meadows country park. Track circuit operated towards Peterborough. Plunger for trains towards Wansford.
 

bluegoblin7

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There was an ex-LUL miniature lever frame at Churston, controlling colour lights and installed in 1979 when the second track at the station was first reinstated. The box was closed in 1991 when control was migrated to Britannia Crossing, and the frame joined parts salvaged from one of the Clapham Junction boxes to create the new larger frame for Kingscote on the Bluebell. These are all Westinghouse 'L' frames, the manufacturer's first all-electric design without mechanical locking.
Slight correction - LUL/LT exclusively* used ‘N’ style frames, outwardly similar to an ‘L’ style but with mechanical locking. It may well be that this has now been removed, but it’s still, technically, an N.

That said - I was of the belief that the Churston frame (now Kingscote [part]) was ex-mainline. Somewhere in Kent (North Kent?) rings a bell but I don’t have all my notes to hand.

*There’s a handful of oddities - Bank CLR and Queensway used an ‘L’ style converted to have mech locking, whilst Wembley Park - uniquely - used a ‘proper’ ‘L’. It is believed that the former two were in fact re-used segments from Wembley Park.
 

MarkyT

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Slight correction - LUL/LT exclusively* used ‘N’ style frames, outwardly similar to an ‘L’ style but with mechanical locking. It may well be that this has now been removed, but it’s still, technically, an N.

That said - I was of the belief that the Churston frame (now Kingscote [part]) was ex-mainline. Somewhere in Kent (North Kent?) rings a bell but I don’t have all my notes to hand.

*There’s a handful of oddities - Bank CLR and Queensway used an ‘L’ style converted to have mech locking, whilst Wembley Park - uniquely - used a ‘proper’ ‘L’. It is believed that the former two were in fact re-used segments from Wembley Park.
Thanks, I got the misinfo from another forum site! The Churston frame was once part of North Kent East, according to this hopefully more reliable source: https://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/index_L.html
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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1 Nov 2013
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1,475
A bit tongue in cheek but even the miniature railway at Betws Y Coed has coloured lights and automatic barriers. :)
 

30907

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Airedale
I believe I am right in saying that the plans for Keighley (KWVR) include/d some colour lights at the Skipton end for technical reasons (can't recall the detail).
 

satisnek

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5 Sep 2014
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Kidderminster/Mercia Marina
The SVR has ONE modern LED signal - out of necessity... you can probably guess where! ;)

What happened with the level crossing at Rawtenstall? For decades it had hand-operated gates with a wheel in the signalbox awaiting connection, then quite recently it was replaced with barriers. I'm guessing it's legal/regulatory reasons?
 

Gartcosh

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8 Jan 2018
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24
Installed under contract by BR technicians in about 1979, I've been led to believe.
The original colour light installation at Churston, commissioned on 25 June 1979 and controlled by an 11-lever Westinghouse L type frame was installed with the help of some BR staff. Other than for the odd special or through working, the loop was only required for the main peak holiday weeks and at other times was switched out with signals unlit and "U" plates displayed to show the box was unmanned. Due to lack of in house maintenance the signalling system became less reliable year by year until eventually replaced. he lifting barriers were installed at Britannia Crossing, at the request of Maj Olver, in the Spring of 1988 the existing gates and up and down distant signals being removed. A home and repeater signal were position on either side of the crossing, and to aide views of the oncoming traffic off the ferry, again at the wish of Maj Olver, the former Halt was also removed. The new installation works were overseen by two BR S&T personnel, and both also took a hand in trying to improve the problematic system at Churston. The next development came when the Marina Company at Kingswear wanted to have a level crossing installed to link the marina with the car park area. The railway management saw and took the opportunity to have the southern terminus fully signalled with a large proportion of the work contracted out to ML of Plymouth. The new Crossing at Kingswear was originally worked without CCTV and train crews had to observe the crossing was clear before passing any protecting signal. CCTV was added later as an in house project.The signalling at Kingswear was worked from a small panel housed at Britannia Crossing, but not linked in any way to the rest of the line so the section from Churston to Kingswear remained as a one train section. It was possible on the odd occasion t run two loco's down to Kingswear and then leave one "locked in" within station limits. By the time this work had taken place the DVR, who were still enjoying the assistance of one of the two BR S&T Engineers (and still do to this day), started to train one of its own staff to undertake maintenance and fault finding as necessary. By late 1991 another ex BR S&T Engineer had started working on the line part-time and thoughts turned to replacing the problematic installation at Churston with everything moving to Britannia Box which had to be manned whenever trains ran. Over the 91-92 winter major work took place with the three staff, assisted as needed by the PW Dept for laying cables etc, undertaking all the necessary work to convert the whole line to TCB. One issue faced was due to lengthy periods when trains wouldn't run, particularly over the winter months, rails could get rusty and the track circuits could become unreliable so atoken machines were kept for both sections with a single token in each. If no train had opertaed for a period of three days the first service over the line was required to take the token which then locked basically locked the single line section preventing any other trains from entering until the token was replaced. This feature also could be used in lieu of a Pilotman in the event of a failure, however with much better and regular maintenace was only ever needed as such on one or two isolated occasions. A while later, whilst out jointing replacement cable on a cold day, following a chat and the drawing of a rough design on the back of a cigar packet, the idea was hatched which saw Britannia Box extended and the various smaller panels were replaced with an NX panel mounted on the dividing wall between the box and small relay room which was also provided at this time.. Paignton was, and still is a unique set up as the level crossing and formation at Paignton South is owned by Network Rail. Whilst in the past the barriers, and before them the gates, were worked from the adjacent signal box, when this was removed Paignton South became a TMO Crossing with drivers white lights provided in each direction for DVR services. The installation of Goodrington Loop and acquisition of "Happy Valley" sidings saw further alterations, including the use of a TDM system between Paignton and Goodrington, and the original NX panel at Britannia has now been replaced by a newer desk style panel. Whilst not to everybody's liking, the installed system gives total flexibility allowing the railway to run whatever it wants once the box at Britannia is manned. This is ideal for a holiday line that may need to fit in additional charters, and of course engineering trains can be slotted into vacant paths rather than having to wait for out of hours possessions. Semaphores would have been nice, and we can but dream of what Churston and/or Kingswear may have looked like if traditionally signalled, however the present system has proved its worth time and time again over the years, and in fact some of the interlocking is now heritage in its own right.
 
Last edited:

MarkyT

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The original colour light installation at Churston, commissioned on 25 June 1979 and controlled by an 11-lever Westinghouse L type frame was installed with the help of some BR staff. Other than for the odd special or through working, the loop was only required for the main peak holiday weeks and at other times was switched out with signals unlit and "U" plates displayed to show the box was unmanned. Due to lack of in house maintenance the signalling system became less reliable year by year until eventually replaced. he lifting barriers were installed at Britannia Crossing, at the request of Maj Olver, in the Spring of 1988 the existing gates and up and down distant signals being removed. A home and repeater signal were position on either side of the crossing, and to aide views of the oncoming traffic off the ferry, again at the wish of Maj Olver, the former Halt was also removed. The new installation works were overseen by two BR S&T personnel, and both also took a hand in trying to improve the problematic system at Churston. The next development came when the Marina Company at Kingswear wanted to have a level crossing installed to link the marina with the car park area. The railway management saw and took the opportunity to have the southern terminus fully signalled with a large proportion of the work contracted out to ML of Plymouth. The new Crossing at Kingswear was originally worked without CCTV and train crews had to observe the crossing was clear before passing any protecting signal. CCTV was added later as an in house project.The signalling at Kingswear was worked from a small panel housed at Britannia Crossing, but not linked in any way to the rest of the line so the section from Churston to Kingswear remained as a one train section. It was possible on the odd occasion t run two loco's down to Kingswear and then leave one "locked in" within station limits. By the time this work had taken place the DVR, who were still enjoying the assistance of one of the two BR S&T Engineers (and still do to this day), started to train one of its own staff to undertake maintenance and fault finding as necessary. By late 1991 another ex BR S&T Engineer had started working on the line part-time and thoughts turned to replacing the problematic installation at Churston with everything moving to Britannia Box which had to be manned whenever trains ran. Over the 91-92 winter major work took place with the three staff, assisted as needed by the PW Dept for laying cables etc, undertaking all the necessary work to convert the whole line to TCB. One issue faced was due to lengthy periods when trains wouldn't run, particularly over the winter months, rails could get rusty and the track circuits could become unreliable so atoken machines were kept for both sections with a single token in each. If no train had opertaed for a period of three days the first service over the line was required to take the token which then locked basically locked the single line section preventing any other trains from entering until the token was replaced. This feature also could be used in lieu of a Pilotman in the event of a failure, however with much better and regular maintenace was only ever needed as such on one or two isolated occasions. A while later, whilst out jointing replacement cable on a cold day, following a chat and the drawing of a rough design on the back of a cigar packet, the idea was hatched which saw Britannia Box extended and the various smaller panels were replaced with an NX panel mounted on the dividing wall between the box and small relay room which was also provided at this time.. Paignton was, and still is a unique set up as the level crossing and formation at Paignton South is owned by Network Rail. Whilst in the past the barriers, and before them the gates, were worked from the adjacent signal box, when this was removed Paignton South became a TMO Crossing with drivers white lights provided in each direction for DVR services. The installation of Goodrington Loop and acquisition of "Happy Valley" sidings saw further alterations, including the use of a TDM system between Paignton and Goodrington, and the original NX panel at Britannia has now been replaced by a newer desk style panel. Whilst not to everybody's liking, the installed system gives total flexibility allowing the railway to run whatever it wants once the box at Britannia is manned. This is ideal for a holiday line that may need to fit in additional charters, and of course engineering trains can be slotted into vacant paths rather than having to wait for out of hours possessions. Semaphores would have been nice, and we can but dream of what Churston and/or Kingswear may have looked like if traditionally signalled, however the present system has proved its worth time and time again over the years, and in fact some of the interlocking is now heritage in its own right.
Brilliant thank you, but can you put some paragraphs in your screed to make it a little easier to read, please.
 
Last edited:

Belperpete

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17 Aug 2018
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2,416
Slight correction - LUL/LT exclusively* used ‘N’ style frames, outwardly similar to an ‘L’ style but with mechanical locking. It may well be that this has now been removed, but it’s still, technically, an N.
*There’s a handful of oddities - Bank CLR and Queensway used an ‘L’ style converted to have mech locking, whilst Wembley Park - uniquely - used a ‘proper’ ‘L’. It is believed that the former two were in fact re-used segments from Wembley Park.
LT did have a number of K style frames, which were the mechanically locked predecessor of the L style. When they got the L style at Wembley Park, for some reason they didn't like it, and had Westinghouse convert it to mechanical locking. There were a lot of features common to the two types of frame, as the L was a direct development of the K. But the mind boggles at what would have been involved in retro fitting mechanical locking on a working frame.

As a trainee BR signal engineer, I spent a couple of months with the LT signalling department. I had just come off working on the London Bridge resignalling scheme, which was Westpac relay interlocking. My mind boggled at the kind of things LT were doing. The Victoria line may have had ATO, but it also had mechanical locking, pianorolas and positive/negative relays (why have one relay when you can have two)!

LT was very reluctant to move away from Mechanical locking. Some of the LT engineers I spoke to were very dubious about BR no longer using mechanical locking: "There's no mechanical locking at London Bridge! How can that be safe?". In pretty much the same kind of way that many signal engineers on BR were very dubious about SSI.
 

bluegoblin7

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LT did have a number of K style frames, which were the mechanically locked predecessor of the L style. When they got the L style at Wembley Park, for some reason they didn't like it, and had Westinghouse convert it to mechanical locking. There were a lot of features common to the two types of frame, as the L was a direct development of the K. But the mind boggles at what would have been involved in retro fitting mechanical locking on a working frame.

As a trainee BR signal engineer, I spent a couple of months with the LT signalling department. I had just come off working on the London Bridge resignalling scheme, which was Westpac relay interlocking. My mind boggled at the kind of things LT were doing. The Victoria line may have had ATO, but it also had mechanical locking, pianorolas and positive/negative relays (why have one relay when you can have two)!

LT was very reluctant to move away from Mechanical locking. Some of the LT engineers I spoke to were very dubious about BR no longer using mechanical locking: "There's no mechanical locking at London Bridge! How can that be safe?". In pretty much the same kind of way that many signal engineers on BR were very dubious about SSI.
Yes - I didn’t want to get into the history of LT signalling here, but both B and K style frames - and others - were used over the years. LT were still ordering mechanically locked V style frames into the 1990s.
 

MarkyT

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20 May 2012
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6,998
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Torbay
LT did have a number of K style frames, which were the mechanically locked predecessor of the L style. When they got the L style at Wembley Park, for some reason they didn't like it, and had Westinghouse convert it to mechanical locking. There were a lot of features common to the two types of frame, as the L was a direct development of the K. But the mind boggles at what would have been involved in retro fitting mechanical locking on a working frame.

As a trainee BR signal engineer, I spent a couple of months with the LT signalling department. I had just come off working on the London Bridge resignalling scheme, which was Westpac relay interlocking. My mind boggled at the kind of things LT were doing. The Victoria line may have had ATO, but it also had mechanical locking, pianorolas and positive/negative relays (why have one relay when you can have two)!

LT was very reluctant to move away from Mechanical locking. Some of the LT engineers I spoke to were very dubious about BR no longer using mechanical locking: "There's no mechanical locking at London Bridge! How can that be safe?". In pretty much the same kind of way that many signal engineers on BR were very dubious about SSI.
LT kept on using massive fishtank relays for ages. They didn't trust the new fangled miniature ones BR was using widely. They continued installing style V mechanical interlocking machines well into the 1990s. These have rotary shafts that actuate the locking tappets. They are normally operated remotely or automatically by the sequence machines, using pneumatic actuators. The shafts have levers attached so can be operated manually by a technician under instruction from the control room if there's a problem with the remote control.
 

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