High Speed 2

[CosherB]

Unfortunately the new government is to route HS2 via (actually, just nearer to) Heathrow. That is very silly, as it will add considerably to everyones journey times for the few going to Heathrow who will save only a few minutes at best as they'll still have to change trains to actually reach the terminals. The route should be as the experts planned it - through the Chilterns and s0d the Tory voters there - they should just be made to lump it.

Double deck high speed? I went TGV double deck to south of France from Lille a couple of years ago - it was absolutely superb; comfortable, roomy, great views (if you sit upstairs), totally smooth, and very, very fast!

 

[Geezertronic]

I just want to know how they expect to get High Speed through lines through Birmingham City Centre

 

[HITMAN]

I just want to know how they expect to get High Speed through lines through Birmingham City Centre

Tunnel I should imagine

 

[Geezertronic]

Tunnel I should imagine

But where would they locate the station and dig so that it didn't affect New Street or Moor Street/Snow Hill? Only time will tell...

I can see it costing a fortune to dig tunnels in London let alone in Birmingham as well. At least in the countryside they can cut and cover

 

[HITMAN]

But where would they locate the station and dig so that it didn't affect New Street or Moor Street/Snow Hill? Only time will tell...

I can see it costing a fortune to dig tunnels in London let alone in Birmingham as well. At least in the countryside they can cut and cover

What would be sensible would be to intergrate Moor street, New street and Curzon street into a Central station, but I can't imagine them finding the money for it.

 

[Geezertronic]

What would be sensible would be to intergrate Moor street, New street and Curzon street into a Central station, but I can't imagine them finding the money for it.

But that would mean someone with common sense would have to do this (and integrate the Metro as well). You could have all the £££ but that would take too much common sense, plus you'd probably upset the bus crowd as you'd have to reroute the buses again to do this. That part of Birmingham looks like it was designed by a drunk anyway, the traffic system is ****

 

[HITMAN]

But that would mean someone with common sense would have to do this (and integrate the Metro as well). You could have all the £££ but that would take too much common sense, plus you'd probably upset the bus crowd as you'd have to reroute the buses again to do this. That part of Birmingham looks like it was designed by a drunk anyway, the traffic system is ****

So far as I can see with the Labour plans they were planning to build a new high speed railway which would start a few meters away from the existing one and stop just before the classic network, thereby disabling most of the advantages that it would have. How could a right thinking person every decide that this was a good idea? I mean you wouldn't built motorways that weren't connected to anything at either end. We'd be the laughing stock of the world if when TGV ask if they can run a Birmingham - France service they are told they can't because some bright spark decided to have the two high speed lines in the same place and yet not connect them. One does have to wonder. . .

 

[EWS 58038]

Aren't the TGVs obsolete (i.e. not built) now? Aren't they being replaced by AGVs?

No, SNCF still keep ordering them. But via their doughter company NTV (Italy) they will gain operational knowledge about the AGV.

Secondly I would like to quote the person who stated the UK was too small for a dedicated freigh railway. People saying such things should contact their doctor for a brain scan to see if everything inside is still okay. If people can come up with such nonsense then all I fear is the same people are small minded and lack vision. Even the Dutch got their dedicated freight only railway, and here we actualy do talk about one of the smallest countrys in europe, which of course the UK does not belong to. Stupid me, what was I thinking in England being part of Europe, led alone Scotland or Wales.

Got another one for you, join chengen, get ridd of stupid border controls and HS2 might be funded by the EU for 10%, if you don't..... Pay the bill yourself happy taxpayer. Don't forget it's YOU who's gonna pay for it, not your parents or children. Your generation must provide those £58bn... So ten percent is an awfull lot of money to be saved possibly.

Third is the loading gauge, HS2 and the connecting traditional network should acommodate doubledecker trains to ultilise the capacity to the most economical model possible.

Fourth, don't put your money on a TGV, Velaro, AGV, Ooaris or Javalin type train. This line will be ready in 20 years from now. Todays modern trains will be out dated by the time DfT will order trains for HS2. I am sure the Chinese will come up with a far more advance and cheaper train in future. Don't forget they are building the worlds largest high speed rail network. And technology will follow soon.

 

[ChrisCooper]

The Channel Tunnel gauge can be seen if you look at the trains and realise that the Shuttle locos are built to continental gauge (although not quite the maximum) yet the stock is much higher and wider. The coaches used to carry lorry drivers are continental gauge too, yet require special gangways that extend out from under the doors to allow passengers onto the platforms.

 

[j0hn0]

EWS 58038, please remind me how old the TGV atlantique sets are? or indeed the first skinkansen trains?

TGV's will continue to be made until Alstom finds a way to double deck the AGV. Siemens have just built a new variant of the Velaro which conforms to new channel tunnel saftey requirements, but is not a lot different to its predecessor.

To say that all current vHST's will be out of date by the time the line is complete is incorrect IMO. Max speed on other european and japanese lines has been the same for many many years and now there are tried and trusted designs, I reckon that there will just be slight updates to increase efficiency.

Would you buy a chinese car? I wouldn't, because they are just copying european designs, same with trains. The engineering experts are in europe and japan, those are the people I would trust to design a train to travel at those speeds.

 

[jopsuk]

Are there actually any new TGVs being built/on order? As far as I can tell last Duplex sets were delivered last year?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I believe there are some currently under construction but I cannot remember the details; I'll have to look through my back issues of Today's Railways Europe unless someone els finds the details first.

 

[tbtc]

So far as I can see with the Labour plans they were planning to build a new high speed railway which would start a few meters away from the existing one and stop just before the classic network, thereby disabling most of the advantages that it would have. How could a right thinking person every decide that this was a good idea? I mean you wouldn't built motorways that weren't connected to anything at either end. We'd be the laughing stock of the world if when TGV ask if they can run a Birmingham - France service they are told they can't because some bright spark decided to have the two high speed lines in the same place and yet not connect them. One does have to wonder. . .

Isn't there an existing connection north of St P where you could run between HS1 and HS2 (albeit not at 200mph)?

Similarly, I understood HS2 was intended (in the early years) to run onto the "Classic" lines north of Birmingham (but, later on, to follow new HS2 routes further north)?

 

[Geezertronic]

Similarly, I understood HS2 was intended (in the early years) to run onto the "Classic" lines north of Birmingham (but, later on, to follow new HS2 routes further north)?

That was under Labour's plans which included a spur off to Birmingham with the HS2 line continuing to the WCML around Lichfield.

The current Government want the first stage of HS2 to run via Heathrow and Birmingham to Leeds apparently so we can expect a different configuration altogether.

 

[HITMAN]

Isn't there an existing connection north of St P where you could run between HS1 and HS2 (albeit not at 200mph)?

Similarly, I understood HS2 was intended (in the early years) to run onto the "Classic" lines north of Birmingham (but, later on, to follow new HS2 routes further north)?

I'm not too bothered whether it can run at 200mph because the train will have to stop in London anyway, it would really depend on whether the NLL is connected to HS2, which I can't find evidence in favour of.

 

[brianthegiant]

there is a link from the junction just north of st p which links up with wcml just north of euston, clearly visible on sat photos, it was intended for the eurostar 'north of london' services which never happened. however i'm not sure if it isnt too far north on the wcml to link with HS2 going west. Also I think beyond stp the link is via 'classic' lines, so the guage clearance is ok for eurostar stock but not for duplex stock, whereas I think the intention is for HS2 to have broader guage for duplex stock & greater freight container density

 

[LE Greys]

there is a link from the junction just north of st p which links up with wcml just north of euston, clearly visible on sat photos, it was intended for the eurostar 'north of london' services which never happened. however i'm not sure if it isnt too far north on the wcml to link with HS2 going west. Also I think beyond stp the link is via 'classic' lines, so the guage clearance is ok for eurostar stock but not for duplex stock, whereas I think the intention is for HS2 to have broader guage for duplex stock & greater freight container density

The problem is probably more one of height and width than direction. Looking at overhead imagery (although not very up to date) there is probably room for a 4-track NLL through Camden Road, but you would need to rebuild the junction (which is on a viaduct) to accommodate this. It is probably not possible to run the connection below the NLL, because it would have to descend very steeply to pass underneath various roads, beside the fact that it would undermine the viaduct. Finally, the Primrose Hill connection, which already has to deal with a lot of freight going to Wembley Yard, may have passenger services if the ELL development continues. It runs into the WCML slow lines, or the d.c. electric lines via a tunnel. A flyover to reach the fasts (I presume the new lines will follow that alignment) would be difficult between a road overbridge, the existing flyover and Primrose Hill Tunnel. Still, it's not insurmountable, although I don't know the details of the planned alignments yet.