Historical East Grinstead diagrams

[RichJF]

Hi all,

I've moved to East Grinstead within the last 12 months (great for railway history). I'm curious about the 70s/80s period (after the High Level closed) before electrification.

I remember seeing somewhere that there was a regular diagram booked that involved a Hastings unit being sent down the line as well as Class 33's. Does anyone have any more info on these or what services they would have formed?

Thanks in advance!

 

[eastwestdivide]

The Southern Electric Group's "Southern Region Unusual Train Services 1982-83" booklet lists Table 184 as all trains 3H and/or 3D, except for loco-hauled* and one diagram for a 5L (5-car Hastings unit = 6B with buffet removed) on the 0630 SX Tonbridge-Eridge and 0720 SX Eridge-Tonbridge (via Tunbridge Wells West).

Other odd workings listed for Hastings units were: a 6S on 1614 SX Tonbridge-Edenbridge, 0622 SO Tonbridge-Redhill and 0725 SO Redhill-Hastings (presumably via Tonbridge). At that time the Tonbridge-Reading line was predominantly WR DMMUs (mostly 119s I seem to recall).

No Hastings unit workings were listed for Ashford-Hastings.

*loco hauled were listed as mornings 3x East Grinstead-London Bridge and 1x E Croydon-E Grinstead (balancing move); and evenings 1x London Bridge-Uckfield (returning to E Croydon) and 2x London Bridge-East Grinstead.
All diagrammed for a 33/0.
I'm surprised that the Uckfield was evenings only. I wonder if that was a mistake in the publication. EDIT: however, in the 83-84 "Loco-Hauled Travel" Platform 5 booklet, the same imbalance between EG and Uckfield morning and evening applies.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Also, the 1984-85 edition has Table 184 as 3H or 3D except one loco-hauled SX working:
0726 E Croydon-E Grinstead, 0826 E Grinstead-London Bridge, 1750 London Bridge-E Grinstead.

There was still a working for a 6S Tonbridge-Redhill and back to Hastings, now SX as well as SO, with slightly different times.

On the Ashford-Hastings route, there was a 5L working SX 0623 Bexhill-Ashford and 0735 return to Hastings, plus a 5L/6L/6S diagrammed every 2 hours on winter Sundays.

 

[30907]

The Southern Electric Group's "Southern Region Unusual Train Services 1982-83" booklet lists Table 184 as all trains 3H and/or 3D, except for loco-hauled* and one diagram for a 5L (5-car Hastings unit = 6B with buffet removed) on the 0630 SX Tonbridge-Eridge and 0720 SX Eridge-Tonbridge (via Tunbridge Wells West).

Other odd workings listed for Hastings units were: a 6S on 1614 SX Tonbridge-Edenbridge, 0622 SO Tonbridge-Redhill and 0725 SO Redhill-Hastings (presumably via Tonbridge). At that time the Tonbridge-Reading line was predominantly WR DMMUs (mostly 119s I seem to recall).

No Hastings unit workings were listed for Ashford-Hastings.

*loco hauled were listed as mornings 3x East Grinstead-London Bridge and 1x E Croydon-E Grinstead (balancing move); and evenings 1x London Bridge-Uckfield (returning to E Croydon) and 2x London Bridge-East Grinstead.
All diagrammed for a 33/0.
I'm surprised that the Uckfield was evenings only. I wonder if that was a mistake in the publication. EDIT: however, in the 83-84 "Loco-Hauled Travel" Platform 5 booklet, the same imbalance between EG and Uckfield morning and evening applies.

The 1821 London Bridge-Uckfield and return ran for a good number of years. Using London Bridge consistently simplified the loco workings, so I suspect it was just a case of the 3 (ISTR in the early 70s 4) busiest trains out of LBG.
(I also recall that one of the 4 went into Victoria at one time, which meant a shunt release and an ECS round to New Cross Gate.)

 

[hammerwood]

Hi all,

I've moved to East Grinstead within the last 12 months (great for railway history). I'm curious about the 70s/80s period (after the High Level closed) before electrification.

I remember seeing somewhere that there was a regular diagram booked that involved a Hastings unit being sent down the line as well as Class 33's. Does anyone have any more info on these or what services they would have formed?

Thanks in advance!

So - being born and bred in East Grinstead, I can help certainly around the mid-80s.

"Normal" stock were Oxted (3D) and Hampshire (3H) units working in multiple - usually these were split at Oxted with a portion running to Uckfield and the other to East Grinstead. The Oxted units were mainly stabled at Tunbridge Wells West.

These units also worked the former east/west routes from Three Bridges and Tunbridge Wells West.

Pre-electrification (1987) there was still extensive sidings (where Sainsbury's and the Bluebell are now) - so various units might be found stabled there during the day or overnight, and even on the viaduct which hosted two long sidings.

Other visitors included Tadpole units and the DEMUs in the 14** numbered series, but they were rare. Hastings units (even 2 x 6 car) would show up on the odd working - from memory, one siding (think the back of Sainbury's carpark where the hedge-line is) could "just" hold a 12 coach train without fouling the points.

The morning/evening LBG trains (as has been previously mentioned here) were 33 hauled - any variant, so 33/1 (buckeye) or 33/2 (Hastings gauge). These trains would overhang the platform, so the train would stop in the current platform 2 - passengers would alight, and then the train would have to draw forward to allow the final coach to fully enter the platform to clear the crossover. The empties would go back to New Cross Gate.

Electrification (and re-signalling) came in 1987, so brought a mix of CIG/VEPs and EPBs.

 

[RichJF]

So - being born and bred in East Grinstead, I can help certainly around the mid-80s.

"Normal" stock were Oxted (3D) and Hampshire (3H) units working in multiple - usually these were split at Oxted with a portion running to Uckfield and the other to East Grinstead. The Oxted units were mainly stabled at Tunbridge Wells West.

These units also worked the former east/west routes from Three Bridges and Tunbridge Wells West.

Pre-electrification (1987) there was still extensive sidings (where Sainsbury's and the Bluebell are now) - so various units might be found stabled there during the day or overnight, and even on the viaduct which hosted two long sidings.

Other visitors included Tadpole units and the DEMUs in the 14** numbered series, but they were rare. Hastings units (even 2 x 6 car) would show up on the odd working - from memory, one siding (think the back of Sainbury's carpark where the hedge-line is) could "just" hold a 12 coach train without fouling the points.

The morning/evening LBG trains (as has been previously mentioned here) were 33 hauled - any variant, so 33/1 (buckeye) or 33/2 (Hastings gauge). These trains would overhang the platform, so the train would stop in the current platform 2 - passengers would alight, and then the train would have to draw forward to allow the final coach to fully enter the platform to clear the crossover. The empties would go back to New Cross Gate.

Electrification (and re-signalling) came in 1987, so brought a mix of CIG/VEPs and EPBs.

That's quite extensive...thanks. I grew up on the Redhill line with the 205's in the very early 90s & had a book on the Oxted lines pre-electrification so having moved it's peaked my interest. Would be interesting to see the area pre-Sainsbury's.

 

[Elwyn]

I lived near East Grinstead in the 1970s and I remember that it was quite common then to see 2 rakes of what I assume were Mk 1 coaches stabled on the viaduct just south of the station.

 

[The Lad]

True and the 33's would come down usually together LE. One morning around 1973 it buried itself in a fallen tree just north of 'Hurst Green' tunnel. The Mk1s were ETH.

 

[tsr]

True and the 33's would come down usually together LE. One morning around 1973 it buried itself in a fallen tree just north of 'Hurst Green' tunnel. The Mk1s were ETH.

Limpsfield Tunnel... *cough*

 

[The Lad]

I know that but 'Hurst Green' is a bit more obvious to those who have more limited local knowledge.

Did the jungle drums tell that the junction is being replaced soon?

 

[tsr]

I know that but 'Hurst Green' is a bit more obvious to those who have more limited local knowledge.

Did the jungle drums tell that the junction is being replaced soon?

Not specifically (though I wouldn't be surprised), but I haven't recently been in the company of all of the most regular drummers...

Any layout changes, or like-for-like?

 

[The Lad]

I got the impression that it was the just the diamond. I know the whole lot was done around 1973, would it have lasted until now?

 

[rob w]

I definitely remember taking a hastings unit in the evening to East Grinstead and I think it was before the electrics started. Its used to be pretty quick between Hurst Green and Lingfield.